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Old 10-14-2009, 09:30 AM
 
6,039 posts, read 9,862,448 times
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Prayer: How to feel like you're helping when you're really doing nothing.
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Old 10-14-2009, 10:42 AM
 
Location: New Jersey
4,085 posts, read 8,015,648 times
Reputation: 2661
Quote:
Originally Posted by Melvin.George View Post
When I was a youngster in the 1930's and 1940's I always attended prayer meeting on Wednesday evenings.
During those years each family either had a member or a friend who was suffering with cancer or heart disease.
Prayer lists were a foot and a half long. We prayed for the afflicted to be comfortable and survive but they suffered and died anyway. Hundreds of millions of prayers across this nation went unanswered.

Now that medical technology has advanced in their education, techniques, electronic diagnostic devices, etc. and with better diets, blood thinners, stents, bypass surgery, stem cell transplants, chemotherapy, radiation
treatments etc. the same kind of patients live on into their 80's and sometimes 90's.

Prayer didn't have anything to do with their dying back then and it has nothing to do with their living now.

Check the insurance company's actuarial life expectency tables from back then and the ones for current men and women for particular age groups and you can prove it.

There is no invisible man in the sky and only those who were brainwashed as infants and small children believe that there is...

"And when thou prayest thou shalt not be as the hypocrites are for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and in the corners of the streets that they may be seen of men Verily I say unto you __ They have their reward

But you, when you pray, enter into your closet, and when you have shut your door, pray to your Father which is in secret; and your Father which sees in secret shall reward you openly" ~Matthew 6:6~
What's your point in saying all this?
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Old 10-14-2009, 11:42 AM
 
Location: Sarasota, Florida
3,412 posts, read 9,539,667 times
Reputation: 2012
Pryer= Placebo effect.... If you want something really really bad, you might get it.
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Old 10-14-2009, 12:58 PM
 
2,958 posts, read 2,305,545 times
Reputation: 584
Quote:
Originally Posted by Reverend1111 View Post
Even though she was "not there" her soul was still connected to her material body.
C'mon preacher...give us a break. That crock falls under the heading of superstition. Superstition is defined as, "A Belief For Which There Is No Material Evidence" You ever seen one?
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Old 10-14-2009, 01:01 PM
 
2,958 posts, read 2,305,545 times
Reputation: 584
Quote:
Originally Posted by BergenCountyJohnny View Post
What's your point in saying all this?
It's the truth. People pray and then watch for some sign their prayer was answered. Prayers are never answered. There's nobody listening. If he/she/it was ever there he/she/it was killed in the big bang.
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Old 10-14-2009, 01:43 PM
 
Location: Sango, TN
24,874 posts, read 22,272,032 times
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I don't pray anymore, because I realized it doesn't do any good. However, I do meditate, so that I can center myself, and that puts me on the right emotional and mental path for the day.

I believe that prayer is simply a mind trick we pull on ourselves. However, if it benefits someone to pray, I don't look down on them for that.
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Old 10-14-2009, 02:06 PM
 
2,958 posts, read 2,305,545 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Memphis1979 View Post
I don't look down on them for that.
Nor do I...it's more like pity. I have three children. Two of them are devout. Because of that six of my eight grandchildren are devout. All of them were enrolled in cradle roll when they were a few weeks old and never had a chance to be objective about religion. They are hopelessly brainwashed. One of my daughters and her two sons think like I do.
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Old 10-14-2009, 02:19 PM
 
Location: Indianapolis
4,325 posts, read 5,493,940 times
Reputation: 674
Quote:
Originally Posted by Melvin.George View Post
C'mon preacher...give us a break. That crock falls under the heading of superstition. Superstition is defined as, "A Belief For Which There Is No Material Evidence" You ever seen one?
I've seen spirits but no souls as the soul in encased in the spirit.
I've been taught different than the people here and I have mostly learned of the spirit world and such. I find no superstition in any spiritual beings or the spirit world.

The spirit/soul is attached to a silver cord that eminates from God. As long as that cord is connected to the material body, that soul is still in that body. When the person dies, then that spirit/soul ascends into the spirit world. That girl was still there. Now I could be wrong in the case if she was spiritually dead. In that case, the prayers could not have been answered because she had already ascended and the machines were keeping a lifeless body alive.

I realize it's hard to fathom but I have heard this from many spirits.
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Old 10-14-2009, 03:29 PM
 
2,958 posts, read 2,305,545 times
Reputation: 584
Quote:
Originally Posted by reverend1111 View Post
i've seen spirits but no souls as the soul in encased in the spirit.
I've been taught different than the people here and i have mostly learned of the spirit world and such. I find no superstition in any spiritual beings or the spirit world.

The spirit/soul is attached to a silver cord that eminates from god. As long as that cord is connected to the material body, that soul is still in that body. When the person dies, then that spirit/soul ascends into the spirit world. That girl was still there. Now i could be wrong in the case if she was spiritually dead. In that case, the prayers could not have been answered because she had already ascended and the machines were keeping a lifeless body alive.

I realize it's hard to fathom but i have heard this from many spirits.
geeeeeeezus!!!!
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Old 10-14-2009, 03:42 PM
 
6,344 posts, read 9,163,868 times
Reputation: 3471
Quote:
Originally Posted by Melvin.George View Post
When I was a youngster in the 1930's and 1940's I always attended prayer meeting on Wednesday evenings.
During those years each family either had a member or a friend who was suffering with cancer or heart disease.
Prayer lists were a foot and a half long. We prayed for the afflicted to be comfortable and survive but they suffered and died anyway. Hundreds of millions of prayers across this nation went unanswered.

Now that medical technology has advanced in their education, techniques, electronic diagnostic devices, etc. and with better diets, blood thinners, stents, bypass surgery, stem cell transplants, chemotherapy, radiation
treatments etc. the same kind of patients live on into their 80's and sometimes 90's.

Prayer didn't have anything to do with their dying back then and it has nothing to do with their living now.

Check the insurance company's actuarial life expectency tables from back then and the ones for current men and women for particular age groups and you can prove it.

There is no invisible man in the sky and only those who were brainwashed as infants and small children believe that there is...

"And when thou prayest thou shalt not be as the hypocrites are for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and in the corners of the streets that they may be seen of men Verily I say unto you __ They have their reward

But you, when you pray, enter into your closet, and when you have shut your door, pray to your Father which is in secret; and your Father which sees in secret shall reward you openly" ~Matthew 6:6~

I placed in red the sentence that made me think this message was written not by someone who went to prayer meetings in the 40s, but by someone who was in sixth grade back in 2007. Really, the whole emo thing is not for older people.

Anyway, does prayer change anything at all and not "merely" change someone's mind? Well, there is some evidence to point out that it does:
Positive therapeutic effects of intercessory praye...[South Med J. 1988] - PubMed Result
Does God Answer Prayer? Researcher Says 'Yes'

But soon enough there will no doubt be some Dawkin's Zombie stumbling around, who will look at the above links and say something to the effect of "well, science has all the answers!...unless the science supports any religion or spiritual practice, at which point the science is wrong"

But, getting back to the whole "prayer only effects the mind"...maybe...AND? Hate to break it to you but, the whole of our consciousness is contained in our mind, and there is a whole field of science dedicated to studying and altering the mind, called "psychology". So, if prayer helps makes people at peace and gives them calm and makes them happy, then how does it fail?

So, I suppose the "logical conclusion" is that it is better to be miserable not believing in anything then it is to be happy while having faith and/or understanding of a "big guy in the sky", which many religions that involve prayer, like mine, do not necessarily believe in anyway?

If people are happy, that is the point. I have someone who will be there for me no matter what and will stay within and without, above and bellow until and after my dying days, and that someone is a entity/thought/fantasy/person/energy/-it-would-be-against-my-religion-and-impossible-to-describe-in-human-langauge-what-it-is, that I call GOD. It is with me always and will always be there for me...is there anything that an anti-theists can say that about? No, hence the envy and anger we believers get from them.
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