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Old 10-14-2009, 03:53 PM
 
2,958 posts, read 2,303,363 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by victorianpunk View Post
if prayer helps makes people at peace and gives them calm and makes them happy, then how does it fail?
.
Whatever floats their boat. P T Barnum said, "There's A Sucker Born Every Minute."

Religion proves that he knew what he was talking about.
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Old 10-14-2009, 05:08 PM
 
6,344 posts, read 9,156,704 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Melvin.George View Post
Whatever floats their boat. P T Barnum said, "There's A Sucker Born Every Minute."

Religion proves that he knew what he was talking about.

So, buy having a set a Myth I turn to for guidance that makes things clearer and enriches my life in ways that I can barely describe, I am "a Sucker"?

"Great spirites will always receive ridicule from mediocre minds"-Albert Einstein.

The existince of the loud mouthed anti-theism, which the Atheists Einstein himself found distasteful, is proof of that.
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Old 10-14-2009, 06:41 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by victorianpunk View Post
I am "a Sucker"?.
Not necessarily though the poor and widowed who send a tenth of their social security checks to dead beat preachers who work 45 minutes a week would qualify.
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Old 10-14-2009, 07:59 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Melvin.George View Post
Not necessarily though the poor and widowed who send a tenth of their social security checks to dead beat preachers who work 45 minutes a week would qualify.

So, someone who is not a member of any church and believes in GOD and prays every day while hating organized religion, like my father, a life long GOD loving Deists who hated religion, is a "sucker", but, an Atheists who gives contributions to Atheistic groups which are, essentially, churches, like American Atheists, who make no effort to hide the fact that they gladly accept donations American Atheists | Welcome, is somehow "liberated"?

Yahh, got yahh...
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Old 10-15-2009, 01:38 AM
 
2,958 posts, read 2,303,363 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by victorianpunk View Post
So, someone who is not a member of any church and believes in GOD and prays every day while hating organized religion, like my father, a life long GOD loving Deists who hated religion, is a "sucker", but, an Atheists who gives contributions to Atheistic groups which are, essentially, churches, like American Atheists, who make no effort to hide the fact that they gladly accept donations American Atheists | Welcome, is somehow "liberated"?

Yahh, got yahh...
My whole story is printed in other threads but to summarize...I was brainwashed as a child, studied all religions, was baptized at the age of 22 and worked in the church for nearly 40 years. After reading the new testament with concordances close by till I was over sixty years old I dumped the whole thing. I probably donated between $80K and $100K before I bailed out.

I'm not an atheist I'm a militant agnostic. I don't know and you don't either.
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Old 10-15-2009, 02:01 AM
 
6,344 posts, read 9,156,704 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Melvin.George View Post
My whole story is printed in other threads but to summarize...I was brainwashed as a child, studied all religions, was baptized at the age of 22 and worked in the church for nearly 40 years. After reading the new testament with concordances close by till I was over sixty years old I dumped the whole thing. I probably donated between $80K and $100K before I bailed out.

I'm not an atheist I'm a militant agnostic. I don't know and you don't either.

My story is simple: was raised in a very liberal yet household by a deist father, was always fascinated by religion and encouraged to think for myself. Became a Wiccan in Highschool and slowly fell away from it and discovered Christian Gnosticism a few years ago and never looked back. Suddenly, the whole thing made sense and I know that, as the ancient Gnostic taught, FAITH IS USELSS AND OUR CREATOR (if he does exist as more then a metaphor) HATES US ALL.
Of course I do not know the truth, and that is besides the point. It is not about knowing...but about KNOWING. It is not about faith, but about Understanding and practice. Always doubt, always guess, never accept anything at face value, especially GOD, reality, and good and evil. Understand the Myth, live the meaning, and if one's life is better for it and it turns out to be false...well, if there is no after life, then how would I regret?

But GOD, as a metaphor at the very "least", is indeed real...and so am I (perhaps) and, as Christ, real or imaginary, literall of Mythic, once said,

Quote:
Jesus said, "If your leaders say to you, 'Look, the (Father's) kingdom is in the sky,' then the birds of the sky will precede you. If they say to you, 'It is in the sea,' then the fish will precede you. Rather, the (Father's) kingdom is within you and it is outside you.
When you know yourselves, then you will be known, and you will understand that you are children of the living Father. But if you do not know yourselves, then you live in poverty, and you are the poverty."
-Gospel of Thomas, 3

Perhaps Christ did not exist...perhaps I do not exists...but, I am here and this is now, or at least it appears as such to me now, and, here and now, if I live by the teachings of Christ, wether or not he existed, and dedicated myself to the unknowable, unfathomable IT which is GOD, even though it might be "mearly" in my mind ( as is all reality, in the end) then, from my past experiences, I am happier as a result.

Hence, I remain a Gnostic Christian because it works for me.

I do consider myself lucky to exist in an age in which I have access to so many different view points and materials...once upon a time, not too long ago, I might have had to travel to a large university to read a Gnostic text, now, I just have to click here: Nag Hammadi Library and that is that.

It appears that Satan, aka the god of the Old Testament and our controler and ruler, if he does exist as more then "just" a metaphor, is loosing.
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Old 10-15-2009, 02:05 AM
 
Location: Salt Lake, Utah
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I've experience numerous instances of my own, and others, of prayers being answered. This could all be a coincidence. But what is a repeated coincidence in Science called? Generally, a theory.
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Old 10-15-2009, 02:18 AM
 
Location: South Africa
1,319 posts, read 1,923,285 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrAnderson View Post
I've experience numerous instances of my own, and others, of prayers being answered. This could all be a coincidence. But what is a repeated coincidence in Science called? Generally, a theory.
Nope theories are about stuff like gravity and evolution, you know stuff supported by empirical facts and stuff that can be repeated by others to test the theory.

No as for prayer, if your gawd knows all from alpha to omega, surely he knows if we need a parking space when we are late for an appointment so why pray in the first place?

Here is a test.

Enroll for a course. Never study, then go and pray to pass and see if it works? No?

No prayer does not work like that. Well then it is coincidence/wishful thinking or squinting to give credit to something that does not exist and denying other mitigating circumstances that actually allow stuff to happen.

In my business the incidence of new contracts are exactly the same as when I prayed for them. My workmanship is what folk talk about amongst themselves, not my faith or lack thereof. Hence since I stopped praying (and I do not advertise in newspapers - just signboards which I had back then too) the work should have all dried up. Odd that most of my customers are/were non believers or hindus or muslims, it is the xians that are always out to screw me to the last dime and invariably I do not get their work as quality does not seem to matter too much in their world.
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Old 10-15-2009, 02:27 AM
 
11,533 posts, read 12,091,312 times
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Secret societies have for ages done what is called "metaphysical work". What this is is channeling the mind to do something for oneself or another. There are many societies that offer their help at no cost to you. If there is a physical need, they will help you if help is available for you. But nobody can help a person who refuses to be helped. If a person is lieing in a bed dieing, they might be able to make metaphysical contact with the person's mind, and speak to the person, but the person must not be too far gone physically and be willing to stay in the deteriorated body, which I assume, many do not.
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Old 10-15-2009, 02:38 AM
 
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Originally Posted by justme58 View Post
Nope theories are about stuff like gravity and evolution, you know stuff supported by empirical facts and stuff that can be repeated by others to test the theory.
You mean like this?

http://www.godandscience.org/apologetics/religionhealth.html#ssU76nSnLFTL

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2007/03/070314195638.htm

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/3393937



Quote:
No prayer does not work like that. Well then it is coincidence/wishful thinking or squinting to give credit to something that does not exist and denying other mitigating circumstances that actually allow stuff to happen.
So, if praying makes someone happy...how does that not work? Or is the point of life not to be happy and instead to live in the Dawkins/Hitchens barcode "paradise" of machine rule, emotion suppression drugs, and all around totalitarianism?
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