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Old 10-15-2009, 02:45 AM
 
Location: South Africa
1,319 posts, read 1,923,285 times
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I read an article of an experiment carried out on the molecular level or on brain cells. A remote sample reacted to the stimulae of the exposed sample and the two were moved away until the two samples were miles apart. The reaction of the remote sample reacted consistently as it did when in close proximity ( I wish I bookmarked that)

Prayer maybe the same as the power of positive thinking. If animals have instincts that warn them of impending threats like floods and they move up to higher ground, it is fair to assume we too have this innate quality but is essentially unknown in the world which we essentially control ourselves.

How many testimonies do we have of folk that were spared the 9-11 attacks due to premonitions or blind luck circumstances that kept them away from the WTC that day? This cannot be attributed to a gawd as then he is sure some sick dude that had no compunction of the passengers who died in the planes and those unfortunate not to be able to escape the buildings before they came down.

Sometime bad things happen to good people and visa versa. Of course the evangelicals were quick to point out this was a judgment from gawd. Odd that their gawd needed to use radical muslims to achieve his judgments? But hey in the OT, we read all too often how gawd's judgments were carried out by other humans.

By this same logic, gawd must really hate the folk that stay in tornado alley and those folk that live nearby levees. Hmm deep south, maybe there is a connection?
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Old 10-15-2009, 02:51 AM
 
Location: South Africa
1,319 posts, read 1,923,285 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by victorianpunk View Post
You mean like this?

http://www.godandscience.org/apologetics/religionhealth.html#ssU76nSnLFTL

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2007/03/070314195638.htm

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/3393937





So, if praying makes someone happy...how does that not work? Or is the point of life not to be happy and instead to live in the Dawkins/Hitchens barcode "paradise" of machine rule, emotion suppression drugs, and all around totalitarianism?
WTH are you talking about? I do not do drugs. Hitchens is a dork in my eyes and Dawkins is not maei heero. On this side of the pond, they do not even feature in our culture.

Your points are moot as you think you have discovered the missing key to life. Goodonya if talking to your imaginary friend makes you feel special or good.
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Old 10-15-2009, 03:10 AM
 
6,344 posts, read 9,156,704 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by justme58 View Post
WTH are you talking about? I do not do drugs. Hitchens is a dork in my eyes and Dawkins is not maei heero. On this side of the pond, they do not even feature in our culture.
The only thing seperating the UK and the US, as Patton said, is lack of a common language. Anyway, my point is that too much rationalism is indeed a bad thing.
Quote:
Your points are moot as you think you have discovered the missing key to life.
I never said that. I only said that science sure as hell will never provide the meaning of life while spirituality can.

Quote:
Goodonya if talking to your imaginary friend makes you feel special or good.
So...the Super-Ego does not exist? That is what I think GOD might be...that, and a whole host of other things all at once, but certaintly not a person like the Nicene Bible makes it out to be. GOD is to be known but not understood or phathomed by human minds. We are to GOD as our white blood cells are to us, but on a much greater scale...and we have about as much hope of every understanding GOD as a white blood cell has of understanding the human.
Hence, GOD does not exist and does exist, hates us and loves us and does not understand us and knows us better then we know ourselves. How is that possible? I do not know...the humility that comes from humbling ones self before the vastness of a incomprehendable thing like GOD is alien to the sciences, and there in lies the true difference between the two.

Anyway, as Joseph Campbell said, "GOD is a metaphor for that which transcends all level of intellectual thought. It is simple as that" So, either the word "metaphor" does not exist, or my "imaginary friend" does indeed exists. Science is all about intellectual thought, never about "hunches" of "feelings" or "emotions" and hence, ultimately, GOD and the sciences should remain seperate, and the rational and the irrational should exist side by side in the same given person creating a perfect equilibrium, a Yin and Yang, in absolute balance.
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Old 10-15-2009, 04:20 AM
 
2,958 posts, read 2,303,363 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by justme58 View Post
No prayer does not work like that. Well then it is coincidence/wishful thinking or squinting to give credit to something that does not exist and denying other mitigating circumstances that actually allow stuff to happen..
Yep...and the brainwashing of innocent, gullible youth continues. Those who have been brainwashed continue the practice.

So many real, hard, reliable, provable facts are ignored when one chooses that path that it's downright foolish. The bible teaches that humans were created in god's image. There are more than a million named animal species on the planet. Every one has a brain, eyes, lungs, a digestive system, sexual organs, etc. and must take in nutrition through a mouth and excrete waste through a rectum. I guess it's just coincidence that all of us are sewage factories.

If god has already been here forever and he will continue to be here forever and if like the bible says he's like us there must be a million planets covered with his excrement. Just an observation.
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Old 10-15-2009, 01:26 PM
 
Location: where the moss is taking over the villages
2,179 posts, read 5,076,684 times
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Although humankind is prone to try to control each other with myths, it is possible to exist as a human without said myths. It just takes unbrainwashing one's self, sometimes at great risk. I try to keep a low profile, myself. I entertain myths for my own satisfaction, with no warranty of expectation or truthfulness.

In Europe, all this "debate" over religiousness is somewhat moot. In our young country, we still quarrel over what has become a no-brainer... Myths do not need to dominate society. We should evolve to accentuate the positive, not the negative, as a country of individuals.

Back on topic... I have no use for prayer other than a motivating meditation. It's all between the ears, IMO. Good thread, Melvyn!

Kate
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Old 10-15-2009, 02:14 PM
 
6,344 posts, read 9,156,704 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Melvin.George View Post
Yep...and the brainwashing of innocent, gullible youth continues. Those who have been brainwashed continue the practice.

When I was a boy, I was attempted to be brainwashed by teacher, who I later learned to be an Atheists, into believing that fairies do not, and never did, exists. He, of course, was wrong...in ancient times, the Indo-European speakers who would later be called the Celts migrated into the British Isles. There, they had many battles against the natives monolithic people who had been there since the end of the Ice age. These people were a bronze age civilization, and hence, iron weapons, like those of the proto-Celts, sliced throw their weaker ones like a hot knife through butter.

So, these people, the ancient Irish, Scotts and British, were driven into the forests, were they lived and had the occassional guirilla assault against the Celts, i.e., "Mischief", while being affraid of iron weapons and slowly, they became legend and were called "fairies".

So, a Athiests attempted to brainwash me into believing something that is not true (i.e., that fairies never existed) when, in actuality, it was just something that was not literally true. Hence, the Atheist was wrong and I, the believer, was right.

Things like that happen every day.

Quote:
So many real, hard, reliable, provable facts are ignored when one chooses that path that it's downright foolish. The bible teaches that humans were created in god's image. There are more than a million named animal species on the planet. Every one has a brain, eyes, lungs, a digestive system, sexual organs, etc. and must take in nutrition through a mouth and excrete waste through a rectum. I guess it's just coincidence that all of us are sewage factories.

That is only if you look at the bible from a narrow, literalist viewpoint. It is not meant to be read as literall! If Noah spoke modern English and used modern English idioms, he might have said, a few thousand years ago, "it's raining cats and dogs!" and today, their would be fundies banging their fists and shouting "IT RAINED TABBIES AND PITT BULLS FOR FORTY DAYS AND FORTY NIGHTS AND IF YOU DON'T BELIEVE THAT, YOU'RE GOING TO HELL!" and people like Dawkins, meanwhile would be saying "we know for a fact that Manxes and Huskees cannot rain from the sky and hence, the bible is false"

If one looks at things from a non-literalist viewpoint, and sees the metaphors and allegories for what they are, it suddenly becomes clearer

"Every religion is true one way or another. It is true when understood metaphorically. But when it gets stuck in its own metaphors, interpreting them as facts, then you are in trouble."-Joseph Campbell
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Old 10-15-2009, 11:37 PM
 
Location: South Africa
1,319 posts, read 1,923,285 times
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If the bible is metaphoric and/or allegorical then it stands to reason that the gawd of the bible is;
  1. Metaphorical
  2. Allegorical
Or IOW a myth. Purely semantics dear boy.
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Old 10-16-2009, 06:15 AM
 
Location: Nowhere'sville
2,345 posts, read 4,048,941 times
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I can say with confidence that prayer changes nothing except for one's mind. Well it did in my case anyhow. I prayed and prayed....and prayed...nothing happened. So I changed my mind about god's existance and/or intentions. If god is out there then it would seem he has no dealings with our every day lives. Just an observer I supposed.
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Old 10-16-2009, 07:09 PM
 
6,344 posts, read 9,156,704 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by justme58 View Post
If the bible is metaphoric and/or allegorical then it stands to reason that the gawd of the bible is;
  1. Metaphorical
  2. Allegorical
Or IOW a myth. Purely semantics dear boy.

Indeed, GOD is a Myth and an allegory. I agree, and my religion says about the same thing. GOD, the devil and Myth is for life what a model is for a engineer: a simply, easier to work with rendition of something huge.

Thank you and thank GOD for proving my point.
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Old 10-16-2009, 07:24 PM
 
Location: South Africa
1,319 posts, read 1,923,285 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by victorianpunk View Post
Indeed, GOD is a Myth and an allegory. I agree, and my religion says about the same thing. GOD, the devil and Myth is for life what a model is for a engineer: a simply, easier to work with rendition of something huge.

Thank you and thank GOD for proving my point.
IOW you have an adult security blanket
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