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Old 10-18-2009, 05:27 AM
 
Location: Western Cary, NC
4,349 posts, read 6,857,324 times
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I wonder if the people who do all this praying also talk to them selves, or if they had an invisible friend when they were kids. It might give some logic as to why they now need an acceptable adult way to repeat those actions in a socially acceptable way.
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Old 10-18-2009, 06:25 AM
 
2,958 posts, read 2,315,418 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cncracer View Post
I wonder if the people who do all this praying also talk to them selves, or if they had an invisible friend when they were kids. It might give some logic as to why they now need an acceptable adult way to repeat those actions in a socially acceptable way.
I think it's all attributable to their childhood brainwashing. From generation to generation the passing along of the primitive dreams. An innocent, gullible child can be taught anything...especially if it's by their parents if then reinforced by other authority figures.

Take the mideastern theocrasies for instance. Their religious beliefs are reinforced by the schools, the government...everybody around them. Maybe that's why they will strap C4 around their midriffs to kill others just to make a point and as we know...fly huge aircraft into concrete buildings at 600mph.
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Old 10-18-2009, 08:40 AM
 
Location: Cookevegas
18 posts, read 27,664 times
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Eh, to me praying is simply being able to do nothing with out retaining that guilty feeling of not doing anything...
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Old 10-18-2009, 09:25 AM
 
16,308 posts, read 26,241,162 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by victorianpunk View Post
But two hands clasped and prayer can provide more comfort then a thousand hands reaching for the Prozac (the logical, rational treatment for a bad mood which had VERY irrational side effects when I took it)
You are the one that brought up drugs, and you are the one supporting prayer. Never taken drugs, never prayed, but have accomplished a lot with my two hands.
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Old 10-18-2009, 09:53 AM
 
Location: South Africa
1,319 posts, read 1,928,868 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by victorianpunk View Post
As I said, I am for whatever gives someone bliss on a individual, extistential level, as long as it does not hurt anybody else. A sacrifice, therefore, would be against as such.

I am very consistent with that view. If it aint hurting anybody, and it makes you a happy, fulfilled person, then it is true indeed and should keep at it, regardless of how "illogical" it might be.
So why are atheists not afforded that same courtesy?
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Just so you know, before I found Gnosticism, I was a Wiccan, meaning I practiced a form of Pagan polytheism and Animism. I only stopped being Wiccan because I liked Gnosticism better and Gnosticism is a better fit for me. I have never, and will never, say anything bad about the great pagan faiths, be they old, like African native religions, of new, like Wicca.
Difference is you adopted a faith, the Africans it is tradition.
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You saying I am a Nicene is like calling a Jew a Nazi.
No I know you are gnostic but your posts still centre around jesus.
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Of course. What, am I not suppose to fix my own problems? In the words of Nietzche: "If there really is a GOD, I would be quite suprised to find that I am not he." We are all are own GODs. You are your GOD and I am my GOD. Who else should I pray to to fix my problems?
See how close you are to agnostic? We A&A's do note defer to a deity when the s#!t hits the fan or when stuff is hunky dory either.
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But does GOD stop there? No. GOD exists and doesn't exists at the same time. It is natural and Supernatural at the same time. It is evil and good, a he a she and an it all at once.

In other words: We have about as much a chance of actually understanding GOD as one of our white blood cells has of actually understanding us. GOD is just something that we should step back from, and step inward to see, and not try to figure out...AND YES, this does mean that I am hestitate to accept a religion that claims that GOD is personal, which is why I am a Gnostic, because it treats GOD as something beyond human capability to understand.
But you have constructed a deity albeit in your own mind, at least you are honest about that part.
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And please, don't go on and on about "proof" and "evidence". Where is the evidence that a life based on evidence alone is some how better than one based on Faith and Emotion? That is a question no on has ever been able to answer for me.

I follow my bliss, and my bliss leads me to GOD. So, I should stop being a believer because someone on a message board tells me too, despite the happiness it gives me? Where the hell is the "logic" in that?
Never suggested you diss your beliefs, I just said it was an adult security blanket.
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Old 10-18-2009, 11:02 AM
Status: "Watchful" (set 3 days ago)
 
Location: Coastal New Jersey
68,628 posts, read 63,882,794 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sarahkate_m View Post
The only time I got results from praying was when I wanted "direction" & was willing to take direction from any source that seemed to point me in the right direction.

The way I prayed was very vague. It was basically intense wishing, directed to "whatever is out there".

I'm not going to say what the first thing was: too laughable. The second thing was a place to move to that I could afford, when I was a single mom. It came to me to look in the Nickel Saver & there it was, the exactly affordable place & not in a ghetto. Now I wish I'd prayed a little harder for a place with a yard instead of an apartment in a commercial complex surrounded by parking lots. Not a good place for children. I didn't pray for how it would look, just the price range. Should've prayed for a nice landlord too, but the ones that rent out cheap are usually the worst.

So, prayer didn't change anything. It just made my mind search for answers more fervently. Nothing has ever dropped out of the sky for me. The one time it did seem to, it was a job that turned out to be a job from hell, anyway - but I wasn't praying for that one... I don't pray or wish for anything very fervently anymore.

Kate
That's how I pray, which is what I call it, but it's more in line with what they call listening to your intuition. Asking for guidance.

When I was a kid we had to pray every night for my aunt, my mother's only sister, "to get well". She was mentally retarded and had cerebral palsy from birth. She was never going to get well or be any different, but the message we got was that we were just not praying hard enough.
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Old 10-18-2009, 11:06 AM
Status: "Watchful" (set 3 days ago)
 
Location: Coastal New Jersey
68,628 posts, read 63,882,794 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Asheville Native View Post
including 'wishing' prayers, 'begging' prayers, 'greedy' prayers, 'revenge' prayers...................

Hello.......... there is nobody up there to answer them
I used to pray for things when I was a kid and then get angry when God didn't give them to me...so I would then threaten to rip pages in my Bible...and I followed through. My Sunday School Bible had little tears in the corners of many pages.
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Old 10-18-2009, 11:08 AM
Status: "Watchful" (set 3 days ago)
 
Location: Coastal New Jersey
68,628 posts, read 63,882,794 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gplex View Post
Does this apply only to whole milk, or 2% and fat-free as well?
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Old 10-18-2009, 11:11 AM
 
6,344 posts, read 9,191,379 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by justme58 View Post
So why are atheists not afforded that same courtesy?
Don't expect me to be held responsible for the actions of the other 5,500,999,999 people of faith in this world! I can only be held accountable for my own beliefs and opinion and in my opinion, Atheism is the one true way of looking at GOD for people whom believe in Atheism, just as Islam is the one true way of looking at GOD is for those who believe in Islam and who's lives are enriched by it.

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Difference is you adopted a faith, the Africans it is tradition.
So paganism isn't a Western Tradition? Even the days of the week are named after Pagan Gods and Goddesses: Thor's day (Thursday) Freya's day (Friday) Tyr's day (Tuesday) and Wotan's day (Wednesday) Not to mention the holidays, like Yule (Christmas) the Spring Equinox (Easter, named for a pagan Goddess) and so many other traditions in the western world all come from paganism. I was just calling it by it's rightful name.

and anyway, tradition is only good so long as it makes an individual happy. If an individual wants to leave a tradition on their own quest to find themselves and find a new one for themselves or create a new one, then so be it! You don't see me in one of those Black American, "Gospel Sunday" churches now do you:

http://en.sevenload.com/videos/3apuF...Blues-Brothers


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No I know you are gnostic but your posts still centre around jesus.
Okay...no offensive intended, really, but you obviously don't know much about Gnostic Christianity now do you? We are the Gnostics of Christ, just as a Hermetic is a pagan Gnostic.

Quote:
See how close you are to agnostic? We A&A's do note defer to a deity when the s#!t hits the fan or when stuff is hunky dory either.
Again, as a Gnostic, we believe that experience is more important then faith. Faith is a smaller part then understanding. Salvation does not come from belief, with understanding being the icing on the cake, as it is for Nicenes, but salvation comes from understanding, with faith thrown in as the icing on the cake.

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But you have constructed a deity albeit in your own mind, at least you are honest about that part.
Yes and no. Yes, is is enough that GOD exists "only" in my own mind (as if the individual's mind is so small a part of his day to day existince ) but I am not convinced that GOD is just in my mind. Either way, it works.

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Never suggested you diss your beliefs, I just said it was an adult security blanket.
The belief that Rationalism is the best way to solve everything is a much greater security blanket then any religion. At it's whole, a Mystic faith (not a traditionalist, socialetal faith, mind you) is about a individual, using sheer force of Heart, to confront reality head on and fight it...while Rationalism is simply a individual cowering before reality, much like a puppy coworing before it's owner after it wet the carpet, and allowing reality to do as it will.

It takes a strong Heart and a courages will to to create one's own reality, but any weakling can be a Rationalist, and accept the safety of things like "empirical evidence" and "logic" instead of the beautiful uncertainty of things like Faith.
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Old 10-18-2009, 11:24 AM
 
Location: South Africa
1,319 posts, read 1,928,868 times
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My reality is what I observe and interact with around me daily. Apart from this forum, I do not spend my day wondering where I came from or where I am going to. Rationalism requires no faith. Logic is what prevails. The only things I solve are challenges which I encounter daily. All of these are processes within my own mind/brain which (in a way) I control.
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