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The most absurd concept held by many Christians is the idea that the Bible from start to finish is the work of God, protected as is BY God as His communication with people.
Supporting this concept by trying to make the whole mish-mash of ideas into one unified theology moves into an area somewhat beyond absurd.
THEN we have the idea that it is ALL to be analyzed "spiritually," assigning meanings to text that has no bearing on what is written. This moves strongly in the direction of insanity.
Different times, different culture. It mean marrying them. No one wanted to marry a woman who was not a virgin back then.
It seems more likely that they did not marry them and still had sex with them but that is just a guess. That they took them for wives and saved them as virgins does not sound as likely. But killing those that were not virgins does not also sound like a nice thing to do. Yes I know, different times and a different culture so we cannot judge them or god based on how we do things today, except for abortion and homosexual acts which of course has never changed being bad as the morals never change except for when the times had changed.
That is the trouble with trying to come up with a good natured explanation for everything in the Bible, some of it just does not fit and by sugar coating it you make it sound less and less factual. I do not hate the Bible but do have trouble with someone who can explain away the murdering of women and children but saving the virgin females as what, doing those women a favour?
Ever thought that a virgin would bring the soldier a better price than a married woman or would be more likely younger and less able to defend themselves? I am sorry but you cannot logically claim that Christians are more moral than atheists because they get their morals from God and it is objective and never changes but atheists morals are subjective and subject to change and then get to justify what happened in the Bible as different times different culture. That is a flawed argument no matter what a person believes.
And you would be here claiming God was heartless and a LIAR if He did nothing to protect HIS people and let them be slaughtered by groups like the Midianites and Amalekites. Why are you even arguing the nature of God if you think He is fictional? I don't argue about the nature of Zeus or if Paul Bunyan was kind to Babe the Blue Ox.
My point stands. There is no verse where God directly says He approves of rape or slavery. Allowing is not approving either.
All people should be a creators people. Is it not a red flag to you that the people who wrote this nonsense are the chosen? God having a chosen people is just another ridiculous concept of this farse religion.
And you would be here claiming God was heartless and a LIAR if He did nothing to protect HIS people and let them be slaughtered by groups like the Midianites and Amalekites. Why are you even arguing the nature of God if you think He is fictional? I don't argue about the nature of Zeus or if Paul Bunyan was kind to Babe the Blue Ox.
My point stands. There is no verse where God directly says He approves of rape or slavery. Allowing is not approving either.
1) Murder, rape, and pillage at Jabesh-gilead (Judges 21:10-24 NLT)
2) Murder, rape and pillage of the Midianites (Numbers 31:7-18 NLT)
3) More Murder Rape and Pillage (Deuteronomy 20:10-14)
4) Laws of Rape (Deuteronomy 22:28-29 NAB)
5) Death to the Rape Victim (Deuteronomy 22:23-24 NAB)
If within the city a man comes upon a maiden who is betrothed, and has relations with her, you shall bring them both out of the gate of the city and there stone them to death: the girl because she did not cry out for help though she was in the city, and the man because he violated his neighbors wife.
It is clear that God doesn’t give a damn about the rape victim. He is only concerned about the violation of another mans “propertyâ€.
6) David’s Punishment – Polygamy, Rape, Baby Killing, and God’s “Forgiveness†(2 Samuel 12:11-14 NAB)
Thus says the Lord: ‘I will bring evil upon you out of your own house. I will take your wives [plural] while you live to see it, and will give them to your neighbor. He shall lie with your wives in broad daylight. You have done this deed in secret, but I will bring it about in the presence of all Israel, and with the sun looking down.’
GUESS THE WOMEN REALLY DIDN'T MIND HUH? OR DID GOD EVEN BOTHER TO ASK THE WOMEN??
7) Rape of Female Captives (Deuteronomy 21:10-14 NAB)
“When you go out to war against your enemies and the LORD, your God, delivers them into your hand, so that you take captives, if you see a comely woman among the captives and become so enamored of her that you wish to have her as wife, you may take her home to your house. But before she may live there, she must shave her head and pare her nails and lay aside her captive’s garb. After she has mourned her father and mother for a full month, you may have relations with her, and you shall be her husband and she shall be your wife. However, if later on you lose your liking for her, you shall give her her freedom, if she wishes it; but you shall not sell her or enslave her, since she was married to you under compulsion.â€
8) Rape and the Spoils of War (Judges 5:30 NAB)
They must be dividing the spoils they took: there must be a damsel or two for each man, Spoils of dyed cloth as Sisera’s spoil, an ornate shawl or two for me in the spoil. (Judges 5:30 NAB)
9) Sex Slaves (Exodus 21:7-11 NLT)
When a man sells his daughter as a slave, she will not be freed at the end of six years as the men are. If she does not please the man who bought her, he may allow her to be bought back again. But he is not allowed to sell her to foreigners, since he is the one who broke the contract with her. And if the slave girl’s owner arranges for her to marry his son, he may no longer treat her as a slave girl, but he must treat her as his daughter. If he himself marries her and then takes another wife, he may not reduce her food or clothing or fail to sleep with her as his wife. If he fails in any of these three ways, she may leave as a free woman without making any payment. (Exodus 21:7-11 NLT)
10) God Assists Rape and Plunder (Zechariah 14:1-2 NAB)
Lo, a day shall come for the Lord when the spoils shall be divided in your midst. And I will gather all the nations against Jerusalem for battle: the city shall be taken, houses plundered, women ravished; half of the city shall go into exile, but the rest of the people shall not be removed from the city. (Zechariah 14:1-2 NAB)
1) Murder, rape, and pillage at Jabesh-gilead (Judges 21:10-24 NLT)
2) Murder, rape and pillage of the Midianites (Numbers 31:7-18 NLT)
3) More Murder Rape and Pillage (Deuteronomy 20:10-14)
4) Laws of Rape (Deuteronomy 22:28-29 NAB)
5) Death to the Rape Victim (Deuteronomy 22:23-24 NAB)
If within the city a man comes upon a maiden who is betrothed, and has relations with her, you shall bring them both out of the gate of the city and there stone them to death: the girl because she did not cry out for help though she was in the city, and the man because he violated his neighbors wife.
It is clear that God doesn’t give a damn about the rape victim. He is only concerned about the violation of another mans “propertyâ€.
6) David’s Punishment – Polygamy, Rape, Baby Killing, and God’s “Forgiveness†(2 Samuel 12:11-14 NAB)
Thus says the Lord: ‘I will bring evil upon you out of your own house. I will take your wives [plural] while you live to see it, and will give them to your neighbor. He shall lie with your wives in broad daylight. You have done this deed in secret, but I will bring it about in the presence of all Israel, and with the sun looking down.’
GUESS THE WOMEN REALLY DIDN'T MIND HUH? OR DID GOD EVEN BOTHER TO ASK THE WOMEN??
7) Rape of Female Captives (Deuteronomy 21:10-14 NAB)
“When you go out to war against your enemies and the LORD, your God, delivers them into your hand, so that you take captives, if you see a comely woman among the captives and become so enamored of her that you wish to have her as wife, you may take her home to your house. But before she may live there, she must shave her head and pare her nails and lay aside her captive’s garb. After she has mourned her father and mother for a full month, you may have relations with her, and you shall be her husband and she shall be your wife. However, if later on you lose your liking for her, you shall give her her freedom, if she wishes it; but you shall not sell her or enslave her, since she was married to you under compulsion.â€
8) Rape and the Spoils of War (Judges 5:30 NAB)
They must be dividing the spoils they took: there must be a damsel or two for each man, Spoils of dyed cloth as Sisera’s spoil, an ornate shawl or two for me in the spoil. (Judges 5:30 NAB)
9) Sex Slaves (Exodus 21:7-11 NLT)
When a man sells his daughter as a slave, she will not be freed at the end of six years as the men are. If she does not please the man who bought her, he may allow her to be bought back again. But he is not allowed to sell her to foreigners, since he is the one who broke the contract with her. And if the slave girl’s owner arranges for her to marry his son, he may no longer treat her as a slave girl, but he must treat her as his daughter. If he himself marries her and then takes another wife, he may not reduce her food or clothing or fail to sleep with her as his wife. If he fails in any of these three ways, she may leave as a free woman without making any payment. (Exodus 21:7-11 NLT)
10) God Assists Rape and Plunder (Zechariah 14:1-2 NAB)
Lo, a day shall come for the Lord when the spoils shall be divided in your midst. And I will gather all the nations against Jerusalem for battle: the city shall be taken, houses plundered, women ravished; half of the city shall go into exile, but the rest of the people shall not be removed from the city. (Zechariah 14:1-2 NAB)
And still not a single verse where God directly says "I am the Lord and rape is good!" What is clear is that God intended man and woman to unite through marriage so your position certainly doesn't match God's intention. Mine does.
All people should be a creators people. Is it not a red flag to you that the people who wrote this nonsense are the chosen? God having a chosen people is just another ridiculous concept of this farse religion.
And the Bible says that salvation is available to all people, Jew and gentile. You would have thought those chosen people authors would have kept their "fiction" exclusive to their own people huh?
And the Bible says that salvation is available to all people, Jew and gentile. You would have thought those chosen people authors would have kept their "fiction" exclusive to their own people huh?
Christianity may have been just a way to expand revenues.
It seems more likely that they did not marry them and still had sex with them but that is just a guess. That they took them for wives and saved them as virgins does not sound as likely. But killing those that were not virgins does not also sound like a nice thing to do. Yes I know, different times and a different culture so we cannot judge them or god based on how we do things today, except for abortion and homosexual acts which of course has never changed being bad as the morals never change except for when the times had changed.
Yeah that's all you are doing. Guessing and judging WITHOUT I repeat WITHOUT all the facts. It's funny that I constantly get accused of being obsessed with homosexuality and yet here you dangle the bait out for me to go down that road again. Cultural context is very important. Women didn't have independence for much of human history. They NEEDED a husband for survival so it would actually be more cruel to leave them unmarried to either starve to them or become a prostitute.
Quote:
Originally Posted by badlander
That is the trouble with trying to come up with a good natured explanation for everything in the Bible, some of it just does not fit and by sugar coating it you make it sound less and less factual. I do not hate the Bible but do have trouble with someone who can explain away the murdering of women and children but saving the virgin females as what, doing those women a favour?
No, the trouble is when you try to overlay your biased ideas of morality and claim that the Bible is immoral without having all the facts. One day, you and other atheists will be ashamed for unfairly attacking Christians and God's word.
Quote:
Originally Posted by badlander
Ever thought that a virgin would bring the soldier a better price than a married woman or would be more likely younger and less able to defend themselves? I am sorry but you cannot logically claim that Christians are more moral than atheists because they get their morals from God and it is objective and never changes but atheists morals are subjective and subject to change and then get to justify what happened in the Bible as different times different culture. That is a flawed argument no matter what a person believes.
Sure I can because morality is not black and white. A person's heart and intent also are factors that determine if one's actions are immoral or sinful. If someone was murdering your family, do you think it is immoral to gun them down? And yet you would apparently claim that God is immoral for destroying the people who were threatening his people. What's the difference? There's a huge difference between killing someone out of malice, anger and evil heart vs killing someone only as a last reluctant resort of self defense or self preservation.
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