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The above bible spam is a perfect example of why our Founders strove to keep the institutions of religion and government separated.
BTW "elder" (chuckle-snort), might want to go and find the nearest atheist couple married by a judge and inform them they aren't really married.
To stepka
Funny, I never gave it quite that interpretation. Elder, I sure hope you're not divorced and/or remarried
Thank you for the response, with all the [size] information and font change I was worried that people would be talking about the insignificance of the matter and overlook the word! We must realize the strength of the word and how it should affect the life of believers. Did you know that the Ten Commandments and Moses law only governed Israel? It was brought in “for transgressions” and served as a “schoolmaster” until the mystery of the word of life was reveled. It’s called the word of faith. Everyone other than Israel was considered DOGS AND HEATHERNS, and was not given consideration, with few exceptions. But, the law of marriage was before Moses and before Israel, it started (as I stated, with Adam and Eve), Geneses 2:24. Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh. Why was this law given at that time? Because Adam and Eve had to be married to become ONE FLESH or a union and did you know there was no Official to marry them. Back then the marriage consummation was “he knew her”; or “he came unto her”. So this is the jest of it, not going into great detail, it was for all creation!
Marriage was a commitment for Creation, and it is also spoken of all through the Bible. And the New Testament explains adultery, fornication and about the flower of her virginity, which I won’t go into. Moses did give a Bill of Divorcement (Yahshua said, “because of the hardness of their heart, but it was not so in the beginning”. Does this ring a bell “what Yahweh hath joined together, LET no man put asunder?”
Mark 6:17. For Herod himself had sent forth and laid hold upon John, and bound him in prison for Herodias' sake, his brother Philip's wife: for he had married her.
18. For John had said unto Herod, It is not lawful for thee to have thy brother's wife.
AzixMundi Herod may have been an atheist for all I know!
Do you think Herod was considering holiness or the laws of Yahweh, do you think he was Jewish? Then why did John put his life in jeopardy by telling him that his marriage was out of order according to the law?
But, the New Covenant is for whosoever will do his will, starting in Acts. There was a change in the Priesthood and a change in the law. Some old laws were brought over to the new, and they were pointed out as such (“as also saith the law”) concerning certain subjects, of course acts like murder, lying, covetousness etc surly that is common knowledge. Gentiles living during the Old Covenant were governed by the law of conscious; having a clear conscious gives them the right to eternal life at the White Throne Judgment, still they will not be in the body of Yahshua.
Yes I am happily married and consider it a gift of Yahweh, and I do consider her to be the better half.
People I know that I am not the only person that can read and interpret the Holy Scriptures, my, oh my, oh my! He said, John 5:39 Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.
A man that is called of Yahweh will completely understand tongues( both the gift and the confirmation (“the baptism of the water and blood with the spirit bearing witness”), the administrations of the spirit, the operations of the members of the body and the administration of the gifts of the spirit that is given to every man to profit withal.
Without these manifestations of the spirit in operation, you don’t have a functional body for the edification.
Now that uncertain question posed by the apostles, “will there be few saved”, can you answer that without doubt and fear of that great and notable day?
Firstly, yes, I do tend to skate over bible quotes quite readily in the first place, plus considering that, for some odd reason, you refuse to use the standard forum format making your posts very difficult to read.
Secondly, I skate over bible quotes because 1. read the thing which is why I haven't been a Christian in over thirty years, and 2. considering the completely debunked and self-contradictory nature of your scripture, we find people who constantly quote it boring and fodder for the Ignore Bin as you have no interest whatsoever in dialogue and merely wish to prostylize.
Look at it this way...
When you go to a car dealer, do you, like I, walk out if we are attacked and accosted by a "hard sales rep"?
God has the power to change anyone's heart, so yes with His strength I believe anyone can over come this sin, and yes I believe it is a choice. I know someone has over this and turned his life around.
I asked these questions elsewhere and think they should be asked here considering the frequent topics on gays around here.
We know that there are some Christians who believe that gay people are not born gay. They believe such people choose to be gay. Some of these same Christians will also glow about the transforming power of god which is able to change the hearts of men ad convert them into children of god. They believe that gay people can "change" if they just get god into their system. So what I want to know if they believe all of this, are there any of these Christians (I guess the women) who will date or even marry a person who claimed they were once flamboyantly gay but now they are changed because they are now Christian? Let's say they are even disease free.
I guess what I am really asking is, would these same Christians actually take a "converted" gay person serious? Would there still be some reservation and suspicion ESPECIALLY if the person still retains effeminate behavior (if they are a man)? After all the talk about gays being able to change, do they REALLY believe in their hearts of hearts such people actually change? Why or why not?
I am a Catholic/Christian would absolutely take a converted gay person seriously. First of all, I believe gay/lesbians are born that way. I don't think all the praying in the world will change the way a person feels when it comes to sexual preference. This is one area of my religion I have such a problem with.
Firstly, yes, I do tend to skate over bible quotes quite readily in the first place, plus considering that, for some odd reason, you refuse to use the standard forum format making your posts very difficult to read.
Secondly, I skate over bible quotes because 1. read the thing which is why I haven't been a Christian in over thirty years, and 2. considering the completely debunked and self-contradictory nature of your scripture, we find people who constantly quote it boring and fodder for the Ignore Bin as you have no interest whatsoever in dialogue and merely wish to prostylize.
Look at it this way...
When you go to a car dealer, do you, like I, walk out if we are attacked and accosted by a "hard sales rep"?
Great analogy, I wonder if Christians will get it?
I am a Catholic/Christian would absolutely take a converted gay person seriously. First of all, I believe gay/lesbians are born that way. I don't think all the praying in the world will change the way a person feels when it comes to sexual preference. This is one area of my religion I have such a problem with.
I think the bigger question is not why gays are gay....nature, nuture or choice (the latter being to most ridiculous reason given)...who knows for certain? The fact of the matter is that they are. To me, the bigger question is why are certain sectors of American society so obsessed with it?
If the Christian god is (which I personally don't believe) and if homosexuality is a sin, then won't they be accountable to god for it? If that is the case, why don't certain types of Christians leave it alone and let their god deal with it?
We know that there are some Christians who believe that gay people are not born gay. They believe such people choose to be gay. Some of these same Christians will also glow about the transforming power of god which is able to change the hearts of men ad convert them into children of god. They believe that gay people can "change" if they just get god into their system. So what I want to know if they believe all of this, are there any of these Christians (I guess the women) who will date or even marry a person who claimed they were once flamboyantly gay but now they are changed because they are now Christian? Let's say they are even disease free.
I guess what I am really asking is, would these same Christians actually take a "converted" gay person serious? Would there still be some reservation and suspicion ESPECIALLY if the person still retains effeminate behavior (if they are a man)? After all the talk about gays being able to change, do they REALLY believe in their hearts of hearts such people actually change? Why or why not?
For all it may be worth, my personal opinion on the whole homosexual thing is that if you're an atheist, or at least non-Christian, then why should it matter to you how or with whom you have sexual relations as long as it's adults, it's consensual, it's done privately, it's legal where you are, and you're prepared if you're 'outed' to live with the reactions of others who choose to think such behavior is immoral, unnatural, and disgusting?
But if you profess to be Christian and to believe in life after death and God's judgments, then you may have a serious problem that needs to be addressed because many Christians believe that sexual relations outside of marriage (regardless of the gender of the people involved) is a serious sin in the eyes of God.
I personally think that the major problem with the homosexual 'issue' is in the definition of "homosexual" (or that once happy but now hijacked word "gay"). It matters not if you think someone has been born homosexual or not, or if one has 'tendencies' towards homosexuality or not, if one is not considered "homosexual" or "gay" unless one actually physically engages in sexual relations with someone of the same gender.
My defintion of a homosexual is a person who physically engages in sexual relations with someone of the same gender.
Christians believe that there is a process called "repentance" whereby those who have sinned can be cleansed from that sin, and, because of the Atonement of Jesus Christ, freed from its spiritual and eternal consequences. But sincere genuine repentance includes forsaking the sin.
Physically engaging in sexual relations, regardless of how strong the temptation/urge may be, and regardless of the gender of the people involved, is A CHOICE!
As I see it, those who struggle to keep God's commandments of complete chastity outside of traditional marriage have just as difficult a struggle regardless of whether their temptation is to have sexual relations with people of the same or the opposite gender. It's not an exclusively 'homosexual' thing.
So, cease to have sexual relations outside of marriage, regardless of the gender of your partner, and after a time of proving you've done it, as far as I, a Christian, am concerned, you've ceased to be a homosexual.
But if you profess to be Christian and to believe in life after death and God's judgments, then you may have a serious problem that needs to be addressed because many Christians believe that sexual relations outside of marriage (regardless of the gender of the people involved) is a serious sin in the eyes of God.
Physically engaging in sexual relations, regardless of how strong the temptation/urge may be, and regardless of the gender of the people involved, is A CHOICE!
As I see it, those who struggle to keep God's commandments of complete chastity outside of traditional marriage have just as difficult a struggle regardless of whether their temptation is to have sexual relations with people of the same or the opposite gender. It's not an exclusively 'homosexual' thing.
I don't agree sexual relations outside of marriage is acceptable at all. I believe steadfastly in the 10 Commandments. I try to put myself in the shoes of a homosexual and wonder what it would be like for my mind and body to love someone I can't have because of my faith. How much strength and conviction does God think we have?? I know, God doesn't give us any more than we can handle, but I believe this is a very tough issue.
I think the bigger question is not why gays are gay....nature, nuture or choice (the latter being to most ridiculous reason given)...who knows for certain? The fact of the matter is that they are. To me, the bigger question is why are certain sectors of American society so obsessed with it?
If the Christian god is (which I personally don't believe) and if homosexuality is a sin, then won't they be accountable to god for it? If that is the case, why don't certain types of Christians leave it alone and let their god deal with it?
American society is obsessed with it. I don't know what you mean by certain types of Christians but personally, I don't get involved with what other people do in their bedrooms.
American society is obsessed with it. I don't know what you mean by certain types of Christians but personally, I don't get involved with what other people do in their bedrooms.
You're right Credo...American society is obsessed with it. The extreme Left with their over-zealousness in showing everyone how "open-minded" they are, in so many ways, makes things worse for gays (and everybody else they support). By certain types of Christians, I was referring to the uber-fundamentalists. Too bad folks just can't leave each other alone to enjoy life, huh?
You're right Credo...American society is obsessed with it. The extreme Left with their over-zealousness in showing everyone how "open-minded" they are, in so many ways, makes things worse for gays (and everybody else they support). By certain types of Christians, I was referring to the uber-fundamentalists. To bad folks just can't leave each other alone to enjoy life, huh?
The extreme left's agenda to get gay marriage legalized certainly doesn't help. It was voted down in the two states that one would think it would pass. Personally, I think you should be allowed to marry whoever you please. But there I go again, it's against my religion. I can't help wanting people to be happy, though.
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Yes,
