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Old 11-21-2009, 07:09 PM
 
Location: Victoria, BC.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by noland123 View Post
Because there is only one true God the one who sent His Son(Jesus Christ) to die on the cross for our sins(everyone sins) so that whosoever believeth in Him shall not perish but have eternal life.
Please....Do tell me how you came to believe in this particular god. Did you research all the other gods, add up the pros and cons then make an informed choice?
I'll wager that had you been born in India your true god would be a different one.
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Old 11-21-2009, 11:24 PM
 
Location: Valencia, Spain
16,155 posts, read 12,852,858 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by noland123 View Post
Why can't we choose to believe, you should be able to think for yourself.
Then go ahead and show us how it's done. 'Choose' to believe in three-headed elephants. Can you do it?
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Old 11-21-2009, 11:25 PM
 
Location: 30-40°N 90-100°W
13,809 posts, read 26,548,187 times
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Originally Posted by Spotted1 View Post
So is God.
Prove it. You can find who started XYZ religion, but you can't find a culture or people who invented God. Indeed there is some reason to believe chimps experience awe, possibly a primitive version of religious awe.

BTW: By "who invented God" I don't mean the word "God." I think there is some evidence on the origin of the word in proto-Germanic or something. I mean the concept of a deity, any deity.
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Old 11-22-2009, 01:02 AM
 
Location: Metromess
11,798 posts, read 25,178,279 times
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Probably some anonymous prehistoric dude, listening to the big sharp-fanged animals snarling around at night, came up with the 'god' concept in his fear of the unknown (and the known). It amazes me that some people still hang on to it.
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Old 11-22-2009, 02:08 AM
 
7,628 posts, read 10,968,827 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HonuMan View Post
This is one of those things I see posted here frequently: Because God loves us, he gave us the free will to accept him or reject him. It's a choice. If we choose to believe in him, we go to heaven. If we choose not to, we go to hell (or at least, we don't go to heaven).

Belief, for me, has never been connected with choice and free will. My beliefs are formed based on what my mind perceives to be the preponderance of evidence. I believe that, if I let go of a pencil, it will fall to the ground, based on my past experience of letting go of pencils and my knowledge of gravity. I believe that, if I confide something sensitive and personal to Joe in the sales department, he'll use it against me, because he has a history of doing so. I don't believe that the earth will stop rotating at midnight GMT, because there's no reason to believe that. I can't choose to believe otherwise--not without knowing I'm lying to myself, anyway. But that's not really belief, is it?

All of my experience and searching have led me to believe that the Judeo-Christian version of God doesn't exist. There's no malice in my conclusion. I wish I could be certain that there's some sort of afterlife, but I can't.

I'm not going to use my lack of belief to commit atrocities, though. That is where choice comes in. I can't choose whether I believe something to be true or not, but I can choose how I'm going to behave based on my beliefs.

Historically, there have been many people who believe in God yet choose to behave in un-Christian ways. To put a metaphoric spin on things, that seems to make more sense when applied to the notion of "rejecting God" than lack of belief does: "I believe in you, but I reject your authority over me."

That's another thing I don't understand: why some people think that belief in God (or lack thereof) trumps one's actions during life. I can be the worst sinner on earth, but if I accept God and repent on my deathbed, I'll be "saved." Conversely, I can live my life according to Christain principles, but if I miss the technical detail of not believing in God, then I won't get into heaven.

Anyway, can someone here who thinks that belief is a choice explain why they think that?
Well, it's pretty obvious, you have not put much effort into finding out the truth about the Biblical God. And that was the choice you made. Because the Biblical God said. If you search for me with all your heart, with all your mind, and with all your soul, you will surely find me.
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Old 11-22-2009, 02:11 AM
 
7,628 posts, read 10,968,827 times
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Originally Posted by catman View Post
Probably some anonymous prehistoric dude, listening to the big sharp-fanged animals snarling around at night, came up with the 'god' concept in his fear of the unknown (and the known). It amazes me that some people still hang on to it.
It amazes me how people are so ignorant of the Scriptures, and of what is being discovered today, that they still believe the Bible is untrue.
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Old 11-22-2009, 02:25 AM
 
Location: 30-40°N 90-100°W
13,809 posts, read 26,548,187 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by catman View Post
Probably some anonymous prehistoric dude, listening to the big sharp-fanged animals snarling around at night, came up with the 'god' concept in his fear of the unknown (and the known). It amazes me that some people still hang on to it.
That's just supposition though.

That there are real things/concepts that can not be shown through the scientific method is mostly just true.

The Planck length, smallest unit of length possible, is 10^-35 meters. If the Universe from the beginning had been expanding at even Warp 9.9, which is an impossible Star Trek velocity, it would be a sphere that's maybe 10^200 Planck lengths in volume. By the 1870s pi had been accurately calculated to 527 decimal places or to more places than is needed to describe anything in the Universe. (Or in 10^326 universes) There are other things where math needs or uses numbers above 10^200. As well as set theory I've often mentioned which deals with infinities even though infinities do not exist in nature and when they occur are a sign our explanation of a phenomenon is wrong.

Also the idea that because an idea is old it's wrong is fallacious. Primitive man had some senses of things, which turned out to be right or may still turn out to be right. For example there's increasingly compelling evidence male circumcision truly is hygienically useful. Its initial justification came mostly from religion or culture, not reason.
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Old 11-22-2009, 04:35 AM
 
Location: Victoria, BC.
33,524 posts, read 37,125,817 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thomas R. View Post
That's just supposition though.

That there are real things/concepts that can not be shown through the scientific method is mostly just true.

The Planck length, smallest unit of length possible, is 10^-35 meters. If the Universe from the beginning had been expanding at even Warp 9.9, which is an impossible Star Trek velocity, it would be a sphere that's maybe 10^200 Planck lengths in volume. By the 1870s pi had been accurately calculated to 527 decimal places or to more places than is needed to describe anything in the Universe. (Or in 10^326 universes) There are other things where math needs or uses numbers above 10^200. As well as set theory I've often mentioned which deals with infinities even though infinities do not exist in nature and when they occur are a sign our explanation of a phenomenon is wrong.

Also the idea that because an idea is old it's wrong is fallacious. Primitive man had some senses of things, which turned out to be right or may still turn out to be right. For example there's increasingly compelling evidence male circumcision truly is hygienically useful. Its initial justification came mostly from religion or culture, not reason.
History confirms that god is a man made invention. If it were not then all gods would be at least be very similar. For instance the many different tribes in the Americas had or have many different gods....
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Old 11-22-2009, 05:44 AM
 
Location: 30-40°N 90-100°W
13,809 posts, read 26,548,187 times
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Originally Posted by sanspeur View Post
History confirms that god is a man made invention. If it were not then all gods would be at least be very similar. For instance the many different tribes in the Americas had or have many different gods....
And where did you get your history degree again? Mostly this is another example of "opinion as fact" or "pontification as fact."

That different civilizations or cultures had different visions of "X-thing" is not proof X-thing is a man-made invention. Different civilizations or cultures had very different ideas about the nature of air or water. Or disease or chemistry. It doesn't mean all these things are man-made inventions.

God could be something they grasped/groped at through reason and human nature without reaching the right conclusion. The Jews, from our perspective, were apparently deemed the most promising people for God to actually reveal to. However the idea of a high God predates them and there is no known "inventor." You suppose that God is man-made, you confirmed nothing.
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Old 11-22-2009, 06:28 AM
 
Location: Victoria, BC.
33,524 posts, read 37,125,817 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thomas R. View Post
And where did you get your history degree again? Mostly this is another example of "opinion as fact" or "pontification as fact."
One does not need a degree to know history...I have studied the history and beliefs of the many first nations people here in BC, and some other areas of Canada so it is not "pontification as fact" Only an intellectual snob would say such a thing.

Quote:
That different civilizations or cultures had different visions of "X-thing" is not proof X-thing is a man-made invention. Different civilizations or cultures had very different ideas about the nature of air or water. Or disease or chemistry. It doesn't mean all these things are man-made inventions.
I disagree.....Their ideas and beliefs of gods and origins of man and the universe are man made.

Quote:
God could be something they grasped/groped at through reason and human nature without reaching the right conclusion. The Jews, from our perspective, were apparently deemed the most promising people for God to actually reveal to. However the idea of a high God predates them and there is no known "inventor." You suppose that God is man-made, you confirmed nothing.
Basically you are claiming here, as so many of the religious say, that some how the god you believe in is correct and all others are mistaken or misguided...I just don't buy it.
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