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Old 05-09-2023, 10:41 AM
 
63,779 posts, read 40,038,426 times
Reputation: 7868

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tzaphkiel View Post
post above asks about "spiritual evolution impacting human behavior and activities"

my view is that it is a giant step backward for humanity to have human sacrifice as the centerpiece of a new religion. That is a giant step backwards. To glorify and adulate a human being tortured and killed and to display replicas of the instrument of torture in the home and in jewelry and in art is in my view ghastly. And it does not get more (let's use your words here) primitive and barbaric than telling followers to eat the flesh and drink the blood of the murdered human sacrifice. no, i don't see that as progress. the same religion (Crstnty) instituted and invented horrific eternal hell and damnation for those who do not join the new religion. the same religion engaged in and practiced forced conversion, murder, torture. no, that is not evolution of any kind. the same religion institutionalized fostered propagated justified encouraged and fanned the flames of hate and killing as an ideology.

violence begets violence. celebrating violence murder torture as Crstnty has done for 2,000+ years, begets violence murder torture. A group that claims to be "persecuted" quickly became an ideology that persecutes and punishes others. "judge not lest ye be judged" run amok with heaping sanctioned judgment murder torture not just in this life but hell and damnation for all eternity. is that "spiritual evolution"?

my view? no it is not. it is several giant steps backward.
no, not "spiritual evolution" in any way shape or form.
i see that religious tolerance, religious freedom, religious liberty, religious diversity are far more evolved with regards to "human behavior and activities." recognizing that divinity is available to everyone, that we are all beloved children of the Creator, that is far more enlightened. taking responsibility for our own actions instead of blaming others is a far more evolved level of "human behavior and activities."
I agree with all of this which is why I keep pointing out the primitive and barbaric rationale that corrupted Jesus's actual message and revelation about God!!! This also confirms that there IS an objective category of behavior and activities that can be considered primitive and barbaric! Some of us are spiritually evolved enough to see it, others may not be.
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Old 05-09-2023, 10:44 AM
 
22,149 posts, read 19,198,797 times
Reputation: 18268
Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
I agree with all of this which is why I keep pointing out the primitive and barbaric rationale that corrupted Jesus's actual message and revelation about God!!! This also confirms that there IS an objective category of behavior and activities that can be considered primitive and barbaric! Some of us are spiritually evolved enough to see it, others may not be.
it is not "spiritually evolved" to tell others they don't know how to serve God or are serving God the wrong way or that sages and masters from other paths don't know what they're talking about or to claim supremacy of one path over another. your posts engage in those behaviors on a regular basis.
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Old 05-09-2023, 10:46 AM
 
Location: Virginia
10,089 posts, read 6,420,662 times
Reputation: 27653
Quote:
Originally Posted by phetaroi View Post
I think what Mystic just doesn't get is that there are tens of thousands of people out there who claim to have had all sorts of 'spiritual enounters'...that were often totally different than his 'spiritual encounter'. But he seems to think that simply because he appears to have a PhD, that that means his story should be accepted. Well, no.

The people in this forum...we don't know them just because we've read some of their posts. We don't know their educational background, their honesty, how successful thier 'real' relationships are, how moral they are in real life...etc. (and that includes you and me). It's just like my 'past life' experience; I believe it...but I don't expect anyone else to just accept it. I've known a few truly nutty religious people. They firmly believed what they believed. The question is...why should we believe their stories. And that's where -- for all his talk about it -- Mystic forgets what science is all about.
The first paragraph you posted in that reply is exactly what I was trying to convey - thanks! And, tbh, what makes the beliefs of a Phd any more valid than those of the "truly nutty religious people"? They used to be called seers and prophets in older times. I am with you on this subject: I believe the truth of my own relationship with G-d, but I don't hope, preach, or hound anyone else to believe the exact same thing.
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Old 05-09-2023, 10:50 AM
 
15,945 posts, read 7,009,348 times
Reputation: 8543
Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
You just confirmed that there IS behavior and activities that can objectively be considered primitive and barbaric, IMO.
Primitive and barbaric suggests all primitive people were barbaric and that is not a fact. My use of the terms you used was for effect and not proof of anything.
The point is we violence and abuse are due to ignorance of our true nature. Knowledge of it brings about peace and compassion naturally as Jesus demonstrated. The kingdom of god is within us. Why is that so hard to accept?
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Old 05-09-2023, 10:52 AM
 
63,779 posts, read 40,038,426 times
Reputation: 7868
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bungalove View Post
Woah, that's a good one coming from you. You've been promoting your opinion of Jesus' nature based on your "encounter" with him for YEARS in this forum without any substantiation whatsoever as a fact. I could go back through your posts if I chose to and quote the endless iterations of your statements concerning such. But, without any scientific evidence to back those statements up, they remain opinions, not facts.
For all intents and purposes, our posts in this forum are ALL our opinions so I don't get why it needs to be pointed out so frequently.
Quote:
Originally Posted by phetaroi View Post
I think what Mystic just doesn't get is that there are tens of thousands of people out there who claim to have had all sorts of 'spiritual enounters'...that were often totally different than his 'spiritual encounter'. But he seems to think that simply because he appears to have a PhD, that that means his story should be accepted. Well, no.

The people in this forum...we don't know them just because we've read some of their posts. We don't know their educational background, their honesty, how successful thier 'real' relationships are, how moral they are in real life...etc. (and that includes you and me). It's just like my 'past life' experience; I believe it...but I don't expect anyone else to just accept it. I've known a few truly nutty religious people. They firmly believed what they believed. The question is...why should we believe their stories. And that's where -- for all his talk about it -- Mystic forgets what science is all about.
As the above shows, I DO get it, Phet, and I never forget what science is about and what it is NOT about. The extant science supports the plausibility of my views and hypotheses as an explanation for the validity of my experiences, that's all. As you point out, there are other reported experiences that differ and cast doubts on the probative value of ANY of them. I have satisfied myself with the validity of mine. That is all. YMMV!
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Old 05-09-2023, 10:54 AM
 
22,149 posts, read 19,198,797 times
Reputation: 18268
Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
You just confirmed that there IS behavior and activities that can objectively be considered primitive and barbaric, IMO.
the words "primitive and barbaric" are applied subjectively.
it is a fact the words exist. it is a fact the words have definitions. it is a fact people use the words to describe various things.

but how the words are used and applied is purely subjective.
the definition of a word does not make it a fact when pasted upon whatever a person pastes it upon.

it is an opinion what a person pastes the word upon. the worlds "primitive" "barbaric" are loaded with and oozing subjectivity.
how the words are used is NOT objective. and it is NOT collective.


knowing the definition of a word
does not make it a fact when a person pastes that word upon their opinion.

Last edited by Tzaphkiel; 05-09-2023 at 11:05 AM..
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Old 05-09-2023, 10:55 AM
 
927 posts, read 757,826 times
Reputation: 934
My grandfather worked for California Homicide serial killers and everyone has said "Oh thats different, thats a good cop."
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Old 05-09-2023, 10:57 AM
 
63,779 posts, read 40,038,426 times
Reputation: 7868
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bungalove View Post
Woah, that's a good one coming from you. You've been promoting your opinion of Jesus' nature based on your "encounter" with him for YEARS in this forum without any substantiation whatsoever as a fact. I could go back through your posts if I chose to and quote the endless iterations of your statements concerning such. But, without any scientific evidence to back those statements up, they remain opinions, not facts.
For all intents and purposes, our posts in this forum are ALL our opinions so I don't get why it needs to be pointed out so frequently.
Quote:
Originally Posted by phetaroi View Post
I think what Mystic just doesn't get is that there are tens of thousands of people out there who claim to have had all sorts of 'spiritual enounters'...that were often totally different than his 'spiritual encounter'. But he seems to think that simply because he appears to have a PhD, that that means his story should be accepted. Well, no.

The people in this forum...we don't know them just because we've read some of their posts. We don't know their educational background, their honesty, how successful thier 'real' relationships are, how moral they are in real life...etc. (and that includes you and me). It's just like my 'past life' experience; I believe it...but I don't expect anyone else to just accept it. I've known a few truly nutty religious people. They firmly believed what they believed. The question is...why should we believe their stories. And that's where -- for all his talk about it -- Mystic forgets what science is all about.
As the above shows, I DO get it, Phet, and I never forget what science is about and what it is NOT about. The extant science supports the plausibility of my views and hypotheses as an explanation for the validity of my experiences, that's all. As you point out, there are other reported experiences that differ and cast doubts on the probative value of ANY of them. I have satisfied myself with the validity of mine. That is all. YMMV!
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Old 05-09-2023, 11:00 AM
 
22,149 posts, read 19,198,797 times
Reputation: 18268
Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
For all intents and purposes, our posts in this forum are ALL our opinions
YES exactly.
Quote:
so I don't get why it needs to be pointed out so frequently.
because you keep stating flat out that your opinions are facts. that's why.
so when this happens yes it is pointed out to learn the difference between fact and opinion, and be able to distinguish between fact and opinion. for clarity and accuracy in these discussions in the forum.
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Old 05-09-2023, 11:39 AM
 
Location: Florida
5,493 posts, read 7,333,090 times
Reputation: 1508
I participate on this forum for entertainment, connection with other inquiring minds, to learn ( hopefully) and to contribute whatever little wisdom and experience I have.

And I bet most participants are similar.

There are many times I need to take a step back. Take a breath, before I respond to many posts.

As offensive as I have the potential to be, I also have the potential to be offended.

But I see that as my job to avoid. Not others.
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