Welcome to City-Data.com Forum!
U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Religion and Spirituality
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 05-16-2007, 05:08 PM
 
Location: Maine
22,917 posts, read 28,260,195 times
Reputation: 31229

Advertisements

Quote:
What Do You Consider Unforgivable?.....
"Reality" Television.

Seriously though, as a dad, I hear stories of children being put through the most horrific abuse. I'm against the Death Penalty in 99.99999% of cases, but this is one of those areas where I think they ought to tie the abuser to a chair and let the childs' dad and a good wooden bat alone with him for an hour or two.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 05-16-2007, 06:14 PM
 
13,640 posts, read 24,505,098 times
Reputation: 18602
I know what the bible says about forgiving 70 times 7 and that the unpardonable sin is against the holy spirit. But, God help me, I can find no forgiveness for the horrible crimes against sweet innocent loveable children. When we see cases and the trials of monsters such as Westerfield and Lunsford on Court TV, or hear about the little boy in Georgia who was raped by a father and son while wife and mother watched with her own unspeakable acts." Lord ,help me get rid of my hatred towards these people'" has been one of my prayers my whole adult life. People say hate the sin, but love the person. I can't do that either, when I see nothing but evil in that person. I am very upset and almost in tears and shaking with anger just talking about it here.

Last edited by Miss Blue; 05-16-2007 at 06:18 PM.. Reason: spelling/content
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-16-2007, 06:25 PM
 
Location: Hickville USA
5,903 posts, read 3,792,660 times
Reputation: 28560
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark S. View Post
"Reality" Television.

Seriously though, as a dad, I hear stories of children being put through the most horrific abuse. I'm against the Death Penalty in 99.99999% of cases, but this is one of those areas where I think they ought to tie the abuser to a chair and let the childs' dad and a good wooden bat alone with him for an hour or two.
Even God has a special dislike for those who harm children.

Quote:
Originally Posted by blue62 View Post
I know what the bible says about forgiving 70 times 7 and that the unpardonable sin is against the holy spirit. But, God help me, I can find no forgiveness for the horrible crimes against sweet innocent loveable children. When we see cases and the trials of monsters such as Westerfield and Lunsford on Court TV, or hear about the little boy in Georgia who was raped by a father and son while wife and mother watched with her own unspeakable acts." Lord ,help me get rid of my hatred towards these people'" has been one of my prayers my whole adult life. People say hate the sin, but love the person. I can't do that either, when I see nothing but evil in that person. I am very upset and almost in tears and shaking with anger just talking about it here.
That's really sick - I haven't heard about this story. I don't think the Lord really holds it against us if we can't shake our complete anger and disgust for these people. As long as we leave revenge up to Him and don't take matters into our own hands, I think he's fine with it.
s
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-16-2007, 07:10 PM
 
Location: Mill Valley, California
275 posts, read 434,051 times
Reputation: 243
I have a brother and a father who were cast from the same mold and, at times in my past, I have disliked both of them intensely for their inability to accept their roles in being abusive people. I also have a step mother who has dissociative identity disorder. I can identify with your stories a lot, Northsouth. I have also had a couple of friends borrow large sums of money in times of dire need (and I am not wealthy -- I had to borrow the money and pay back the loans myself), only to find that they "forgot" about these loans conveniently when times became better. I have even had one friend who was a murderer (and never caught).

I struggled with all of these relationships until I realized, over the years, that what I was really fighting with was my own preconceptions of what I am supposed to get from each of these relationships. For example, I had these preconceived ideals of what a father was, what a brother was, and what a friend was and I was constantly imposing these definitions upon my relationships, kind of expecting them all, to one day or another, magically come into alignment with my own ideals. Clearly this never happened for me, and in the worst case scenarios above, the level of disappoint I felt was quite profound.

Today (having realized what I was doing) I have managed to scrap most of my preconceived ideals, and have rebuilt new relationships with all my family members, which, to me, is what I really sense is the forefront of forgiveness (my list of friends have not all fared as well, I had to actively dismiss two from my life, but two I still have and love). These relationships still aren't without their turmultuous moments, but from my own perspective, I no longer wrestle with the ugly feelings, the tension or the long-term stresses that I once had when I was expecting too much from all of them. Now, I am able to quickly step away from issues that truly belong to them, and don't get involved with trying to fix anything that's not truly on my own plate. This also means, however, that my personal relationships are fairly unconventional. Some of my friends are far closer to me than my own family members (except for my sister who is perfect in every way). It also means that I have some people who I keep at arm's length, but, for their part, they still adore me as among their circle of closest friends. I cannot reciprocate this adoration because they simply do not deserve the level of trust one typically might give a true friend.

Ultimately, however, when my father had a severe stroke a few years back that completely disabled him, and needed someone to take care of him (or we would have to leave him in a convelescent hospital for the rest of his life), I was able to step in and do my duty as I still think a son needs to do when their parents get old and sick, without a fear of being mentally overwhelmed by my past feelings. I took over full-time care for him and have been doing this happily for the past four years.

I hope my experience might help you. I do think you can forgive anyone if you truly have no preconceive expectations from your father. Forgiveness does not mean your relationship has to be a fairy-tale, stereotypical father-daughter relationship. There are two people who define the relationship, so let it become whatever form it's supposed to be.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-16-2007, 07:56 PM
 
Location: From Sea to Shining Sea
1,082 posts, read 3,779,563 times
Reputation: 519
There is a difference in forgiving and not letting someone torment you any longer and living in a state of unforgiveness.

You can cut someone out of your life and still forgive them, but if that person is harmful to you, forgiving them and then not subjecting yourself to them, I believe is okay. We are to always forgive as Yeshua forgives. But then again He only forgives the repentant. (Just a thought).
How can we be greater? We can't.
I have let people who I loved go because I cannot be harmed by them any longer, that means they poison my life.
So I am done being an emotional punching bag, that does not mean I do not wish them well, and pray for them. But see them, be with them? No.
MBG
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-17-2007, 12:16 AM
 
Location: Hickville USA
5,903 posts, read 3,792,660 times
Reputation: 28560
Quote:
Originally Posted by HopOnPop View Post
I have a brother and a father who were cast from the same mold and, at times in my past, I have disliked both of them intensely for their inability to accept their roles in being abusive people. I also have a step mother who has dissociative identity disorder. I can identify with your stories a lot, Northsouth. I have also had a couple of friends borrow large sums of money in times of dire need (and I am not wealthy -- I had to borrow the money and pay back the loans myself), only to find that they "forgot" about these loans conveniently when times became better. I have even had one friend who was a murderer (and never caught).

I struggled with all of these relationships until I realized, over the years, that what I was really fighting with was my own preconceptions of what I am supposed to get from each of these relationships. For example, I had these preconceived ideals of what a father was, what a brother was, and what a friend was and I was constantly imposing these definitions upon my relationships, kind of expecting them all, to one day or another, magically come into alignment with my own ideals. Clearly this never happened for me, and in the worst case scenarios above, the level of disappoint I felt was quite profound.

Today (having realized what I was doing) I have managed to scrap most of my preconceived ideals, and have rebuilt new relationships with all my family members, which, to me, is what I really sense is the forefront of forgiveness (my list of friends have not all fared as well, I had to actively dismiss two from my life, but two I still have and love). These relationships still aren't without their turmultuous moments, but from my own perspective, I no longer wrestle with the ugly feelings, the tension or the long-term stresses that I once had when I was expecting too much from all of them. Now, I am able to quickly step away from issues that truly belong to them, and don't get involved with trying to fix anything that's not truly on my own plate. This also means, however, that my personal relationships are fairly unconventional. Some of my friends are far closer to me than my own family members (except for my sister who is perfect in every way). It also means that I have some people who I keep at arm's length, but, for their part, they still adore me as among their circle of closest friends. I cannot reciprocate this adoration because they simply do not deserve the level of trust one typically might give a true friend.

Ultimately, however, when my father had a severe stroke a few years back that completely disabled him, and needed someone to take care of him (or we would have to leave him in a convelescent hospital for the rest of his life), I was able to step in and do my duty as I still think a son needs to do when their parents get old and sick, without a fear of being mentally overwhelmed by my past feelings. I took over full-time care for him and have been doing this happily for the past four years.

I hope my experience might help you. I do think you can forgive anyone if you truly have no preconceive expectations from your father. Forgiveness does not mean your relationship has to be a fairy-tale, stereotypical father-daughter relationship. There are two people who define the relationship, so let it become whatever form it's supposed to be.
Thanks, Hop. I'm glad you could accept them as they are because that's really hard to do sometimes. Never loan money (trust me, I had to learn the hard way too) to friends or to family members. If you just give it to them and don't expect to be paid back it saves the relationship. But I don't do either. Good for you taking care of your Dad....I think that shows a trememdous amount of humility and respect towards God and your Dad.

It's not just me that my father has alienated...it's everyone close to him, except for my half-sister. But she is a mess emotionally from his abuse, because my stepmother died when she was 3 and he raised her. The man is not without some good qualities, but even serial killers can be charming.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-17-2007, 12:22 AM
 
30,902 posts, read 32,992,865 times
Reputation: 26919
Quote:
Originally Posted by midnightbirdgirl View Post
There is a difference in forgiving and not letting someone torment you any longer and living in a state of unforgiveness.

You can cut someone out of your life and still forgive them, but if that person is harmful to you, forgiving them and then not subjecting yourself to them, I believe is okay. We are to always forgive as Yeshua forgives. But then again He only forgives the repentant. (Just a thought).
How can we be greater? We can't.
I have let people who I loved go because I cannot be harmed by them any longer, that means they poison my life.
So I am done being an emotional punching bag, that does not mean I do not wish them well, and pray for them. But see them, be with them? No.
MBG
Agree, and well stated.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-17-2007, 12:27 AM
 
923 posts, read 3,512,886 times
Reputation: 207
Wink What Do You Consider Unforgivable?.....

Bad Cooking...
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-17-2007, 04:30 AM
 
2,970 posts, read 2,258,275 times
Reputation: 658
I presonally have a hard time forgiven cruelty, of any kind. But especially to the innocent. And that includes cruelty to animals.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-17-2007, 07:26 AM
 
743 posts, read 2,233,804 times
Reputation: 241
It was very difficult for me to read these posts without my heart breaking. Many of you have lived through and survived horrific situations. Atrocities against innocent children is incomprehenible for me....I'm so sorry for those of you who have experienced such crimes.

If someone abused/raped/murdered one of my children, I honestly don't know how I would be able to forgive them. Many of you are better people and better Christians than I.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Religion and Spirituality
Similar Threads

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 10:38 PM.

© 2005-2024, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Contact Us - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37 - Top