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Old 12-10-2009, 02:08 PM
Tkt Tkt started this thread
 
44 posts, read 152,789 times
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Hey,

I just want to say, that this is not a thread against religion, I'm just looking for some answers, to try and understand relgion.

I've often asked people who believe in god:
"if god loves us so much, why does he make us suffer so much, why does he let such horrible events happen?"

I always got this answer: "God is testing us, to see if we are good people, and to test our faith."

But this really confused me, and made me question god. I'd really like to have some answers to these questions, which might help me finally understand why people believe in god:

1)If god knows everything, why does he need to test us? Shouldn't he know from the start who is good, and who is evil?

2)If god created us, isn't it his fault if we are evil?

3)God punishes you for not believing in him, but if you were good during your entire life, don't you deserve to go to heaven, even if you didn't believe in him?

4)If god wants to test us, see if we are good people, why did he warn us about hell, and tell us about paradise? Doesn't that influence us, and make us act against our desires, and thus make us act good, even if we aren't?

5)Some people become evil because of what happened to them in their lives. Events that would make any man evil. So how can god blame you for being so?

Thank you for your answers
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Old 12-10-2009, 02:58 PM
 
4,145 posts, read 10,410,074 times
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We, as humans, were given free will. Will to do as we wish. God doesn't force us into anything. He knows our decisions, and hopes that we'll choose to follow Him, but our lives are controlled by our choices.

You'll find that as you grow in your faith, you'll start to gain a better understanding about all of these questions, and even more. You don't sound like you've made up your mind either way, but your curiosity is natural. I'm sure you'll find what you're looking for. The Book of James is great in the Bible. Gives you a rundown of Christianity in a very quick read. You can also read "The Case for Faith" which will really detail what Christianity is and what we believe to be true.
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Old 12-10-2009, 03:08 PM
 
776 posts, read 1,273,280 times
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I think the rain falls on the good as well as the bad. If God made only good things happen to people of faith then everyone would worship him for the wrong reasons. It would be like getting a paycheck for a job. But faith is more complicated than that. I think you need to have faith through thick and thin. Regardless of whether good things happen to you or bad things. /jmho
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Old 12-10-2009, 03:11 PM
Tkt Tkt started this thread
 
44 posts, read 152,789 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by monkey cabal View Post
I think the rain falls on the good as well as the bad. If God made only good things happen to people of faith then everyone would worship him for the wrong reasons. It would be like getting a paycheck for a job. But faith is more complicated than that. I think you need to have faith through thick and thin. Regardless of whether good things happen to you or bad things. /jmho
But that's the thing, if your life is nothing but misery, how can you believe in a god who loves you?
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Old 12-10-2009, 03:17 PM
 
776 posts, read 1,273,280 times
Reputation: 258
Quote:
Originally Posted by monkey cabal
I think the rain falls on the good as well as the bad. If God made only good things happen to people of faith then everyone would worship him for the wrong reasons. It would be like getting a paycheck for a job. But faith is more complicated than that. I think you need to have faith through thick and thin. Regardless of whether good things happen to you or bad things. /jmho
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tkt View Post
But that's the thing, if your life is nothing but misery, how can you believe in a god who loves you?
It seems like that would take a lot of faith.
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Old 12-10-2009, 03:25 PM
 
Location: Sango, TN
24,869 posts, read 24,344,453 times
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The simple answer,

God doesn't do any of those things. God, if thats what you choose to call it, is something bigger then an influence on our daily lives.

I always find it funny that when something good happens, then God has blessed you. If something bad happens, then "The lord works in mysterious ways". I wish that worked with my boss. If I do something good, I get praised of course. If I do something bad, I'm just working mysteriously.

If you read the old testament, and parts of the new, then you'll realize that God is a childish, emotional, and can't make up his mind about anything. He is really no better then the Greek or Roman Gods in his actions. I believe the only thing he didn't do, was to impregnate a woman, oh wait, he did that to.

Seriously, if someone goes through life looking to God for answers, they are living life the wrong way.

Simply look at it from the point of view of a parent. You raise your child, you give them all the tools they need to succeed, and then you wish them the best. You don't want them coming to you constantly asking for help now do you? My Dad is so thankful that I am able to take care of myself, and the only time I call him is to see how things are going on his end, and to let him know that things are still going well for me. He doesn't want to hear about bad things all the time, and that seems to be all God gets asked about, bad things.
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Old 12-10-2009, 03:35 PM
 
Location: Portland, OR
1,082 posts, read 2,397,838 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kevcrawford View Post
We, as humans, were given free will. Will to do as we wish. God doesn't force us into anything. He knows our decisions, and hopes that we'll choose to follow Him, but our lives are controlled by our choices.

You'll find that as you grow in your faith, you'll start to gain a better understanding about all of these questions, and even more. You don't sound like you've made up your mind either way, but your curiosity is natural. I'm sure you'll find what you're looking for. The Book of James is great in the Bible. Gives you a rundown of Christianity in a very quick read. You can also read "The Case for Faith" which will really detail what Christianity is and what we believe to be true.
That begs several questions: What is inherently good and desirable about free will, if it applies to something as serious as the eternal fate of one's soul? Why would a loving God create beings so flawed that they have the capacity to seal their own doom? Why not create beings without the capacity for evil, or without the capacity for misinterpreting ambiguous information? What is the point of the need for faith? As I stated in another recent thread, I didn't choose not to believe in the Judeo-Christian idea of God, any more than I didn't choose not to believe in the existence of unicorns. I examined all the evidence that has come my way during my half-century on earth, and I haven't been able to come to any other conclusion than, if there is some sort of God, it isn't anything like the God portrayed in the Bible. But I do choose to live my life according to what I consider to be the loftier values expressed in the Bible and elsewhere.
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Old 12-10-2009, 03:40 PM
Tkt Tkt started this thread
 
44 posts, read 152,789 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kevcrawford View Post
We, as humans, were given free will. Will to do as we wish. God doesn't force us into anything. He knows our decisions, and hopes that we'll choose to follow Him, but our lives are controlled by our choices.
But are actions are completely dependant of everything that happens to us. 2 people will have completely different reactions depending of what happened to them during their lives. So can you really blame someone for a choice he makes, seeing as he would have done something else if certain events hadn't occured in his life?
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Old 06-30-2020, 12:06 PM
 
81 posts, read 94,133 times
Reputation: 91
Default Be good

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tkt View Post
Hey,

I just want to say, that this is not a thread against religion, I'm just looking for some answers, to try and understand relgion.

I've often asked people who believe in god:
"if god loves us so much, why does he make us suffer so much, why does he let such horrible events happen?"

I always got this answer: "God is testing us, to see if we are good people, and to test our faith."

But this really confused me, and made me question god. I'd really like to have some answers to these questions, which might help me finally understand why people believe in god:

1)If god knows everything, why does he need to test us? Shouldn't he know from the start who is good, and who is evil?

2)If god created us, isn't it his fault if we are evil?

3)God punishes you for not believing in him, but if you were good during your entire life, don't you deserve to go to heaven, even if you didn't believe in him?

4)If god wants to test us, see if we are good people, why did he warn us about hell, and tell us about paradise? Doesn't that influence us, and make us act against our desires, and thus make us act good, even if we aren't?

5)Some people become evil because of what happened to them in their lives. Events that would make any man evil. So how can god blame you for being so?

Thank you for your answers

It is a tradition among certain Jews to say that God's higher goal for Israel was not to worship him or believe in him but that Israel should practice righteousness, justice, and mercy. Thus, there came to be a Jewish story that I retell here: there was a man who could no longer maintain both his faith in God and his practice of following the Torah. He chose to give up on the Torah. When an angel informed God of this, God said, "Would that he had given up faith in me and kept the Torah!"

Belief is highly over-rated. My belief is that God does not need our belief but our righteousness.
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Old 06-30-2020, 12:29 PM
 
Location: Sun City West, Arizona
50,469 posts, read 24,054,533 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tkt View Post
But that's the thing, if your life is nothing but misery, how can you believe in a god who loves you?
I no longer believe in god because of many of the things you mention in your original post...and a few more. There's some song in my head right now where one of the lines is, "If this is love, who needs it".

As an atheist, however, I hold out one possibility -- a deistic god. Basically, one who creates but does not manage. In other words, once you're here, you're on your own. I could see that...maybe. But, that would not be biblegod.

I just know that a long time ago I got very fed up with the christian response of (perhaps stated in different ways), "God works in mysterious ways". That's just a shallow excuse for a holy book that doesn't fit reality.
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