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Old 02-24-2010, 11:03 AM
 
1,736 posts, read 1,959,822 times
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Jesus as God is problematic.

If you believe in the trinity, you would have to explain how in the beginning, Jesus was alive before his mother was even born.
You would also have to contend with the virgin birth.
That concept was around much earlier than Christianity in other religions.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dr767bZQWFw&feature=fvw


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wx5EKaY1B8g&feature=related

To believe in it would mean that you would have to breed God, one species, with man, a different species. In modern terms we call this bestiality. Not a good epithet to hang on a God.
It is also problematic to have God use another mans woman. That sound too much like coveting another man’s wife. It also shows a God that needs a human, his own mother in fact, to reproduce himself as Jesus/God.
If Jesus was in the beginning as part of the trinity then we would end up with two Jesus’.
It sounds strange to me that God would also have to use a woman to reproduce himself. That would make his mate his own mother. In modern terms, that is incest.
To think that God would break the rules of bestiality, and incest and create a paradox of living before his mother, would I think, be wrong.
Further, to think that God would have such problems getting man on track that he would have to tweak his perfect creations also shows a God that somehow failed to start us up the right way and we know that this is impossible for God because it would mean that he is incompetent.
We should all believe that God gets things right the first time and every time.
As to the vicarious redemption of Jesus, this was arguably rejected by God as immoral.
Why have you forsaken me, is answered by, it is immoral.

http://www.thenazareneway.com/vicarious_atonement.htm

The last reason I have a problem with Jesus as God is that scripture has him resurrecting and his body living forever in heaven.
This cannot be as he never ate of the tree of life. He then could not be immortal. At least not his human part.
To believe that Jesus is God one also has to buy into the notion that miracles of all kinds are real.
No proof of any miracle exists and I think that if God wanted man to believe in such a thing, he would have left a sample here for us to ponder.

Do you have faith in Jesus?

If so,
Matthew 17:20
And Jesus said unto them, Because of your unbelief: for verily I say unto you, If ye have faith as a grain of mustard seed, ye shall say unto this mountain, Remove hence to yonder place; and it shall remove; and nothing shall be impossible unto you.
Do your thing. There are about 50,000 children that starve to death yearly. Time for you to show what faith can do.

Do you have faith in Jesus?

Are miracles real?

Regards
DL
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Old 02-24-2010, 11:10 AM
 
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Sounds like you need to come over to our side (Judaism). We don't have any of that Greek Mythology woven into our faith! :-)
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Old 02-24-2010, 11:32 AM
 
2,981 posts, read 4,832,015 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Greatest I am View Post
Jesus as God is problematic.

If you believe in the trinity, you would have to explain how in the beginning, Jesus was alive before his mother was even born.
You would also have to contend with the virgin birth.
That concept was around much earlier than Christianity in other religions.
In the doctrine of the Word, Jesus, as God, has no mother.
In the doctrine of the Word, Jesus, as the "Son of God" born out of a virgin, calls every human being who does the will of the Father, His "mother" and His "brother".
In the doctrine of the Word, Adam was created from the dust of the earth and the Creator breathed into the formed flesh body and the Adam became a living soul, the first human.

In the doctrine of the Word, the Creator could form seed/sons for Abraham [sons of faith] from rocks of this earth, who would praise Him.
In the doctrine of the Word, God formed the flesh body of the second and last Man in the womb of a virgin, which He, the Living Spirit, then donned/put on, like a garment is put on, so as to come in the flesh of the only created brother to Adam, to be the legal Kinsman/Redeemer, for Adam.

In the doctrine of the Word, the second Man/human being flesh created, is not a son of the dead [separated from the Glory of YHWH in spirit and flesh] Adam creation, but is a new creation, whose name is not Adam, in the doctrine of the Word, as second Man, but whose name is "Israel"; and He gave His own New Man name which was to come, and is come, as a sign of the adoption to come, to Jacob.

Since you know nothing of the doctrine of the Word, then you know nothing about the subject on which you are so ignorantly speaking of, and your whole argument is ignorant blather.
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Old 02-24-2010, 01:49 PM
 
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Originally Posted by chattypatty View Post
Sounds like you need to come over to our side (Judaism). We don't have any of that Greek Mythology woven into our faith! :-)
Between you and I, in my net travels, I find Jews much brighter than Christians. Jews are underrepresented but you still outshine Christians.

If I was looking for a group to join. I would become a Jew.

Christian literalists and fundamentals love to hate too much.

Regards
DL
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Old 02-24-2010, 02:20 PM
 
Location: Indianapolis
4,325 posts, read 5,497,744 times
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Jesus never proclaimed to be God. It was later added to the NT to explain away the miracles that were performed. Of course, not all of the miracles are true. Jesus is now and will always be a son of God as we are sons/daughters of God.
If God ever left His place in the universe, we would all cease to exist. And besides, why would He need to come to only one of His planets when He has billions. God knows and sees all so He would have no need to come here disguised as Jesus.
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Old 02-24-2010, 02:29 PM
 
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Jesus, as the Son of God, is the Second human Being creation flesh. As the Person of the Word, come in that flesh prepared in the womb for His donning, He is YHWH of the OT, and He is the only Person in YHWH whom any created being has ever, does ever, or shall ever "see".
It is YHWH Himself who is the Ga'al =Kinsman/Redeemer of Adam, by coming in the flesh of second creation human being, as the Firstborn of creation in that human being body, but as YHWH the Everlasting Word, who is the Spirit, the Life, the Breath, who made all things.

Isaiah 59 tells us that YHWH donned the garments of the second [hu]Man/Ish flesh creation, to bring forth the justice for the earth that no Adam person ish/man could be found to do, because of the fall.
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Old 02-24-2010, 02:50 PM
 
Location: Indianapolis
4,325 posts, read 5,497,744 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yeshuasavedme View Post
Jesus, as the Son of God, is the Second human Being creation flesh. As the Person of the Word, come in that flesh prepared in the womb for His donning, He is YHWH of the OT, and He is the only Person in YHWH whom any created being has ever, does ever, or shall ever "see".
It is YHWH Himself who is the Ga'al =Kinsman/Redeemer of Adam, by coming in the flesh of second creation human being, as the Firstborn of creation in that human being body, but as YHWH the Everlasting Word, who is the Spirit, the Life, the Breath, who made all things.

Isaiah 59 tells us that YHWH donned the garments of the second [hu]Man/Ish flesh creation, to bring forth the justice for the earth that no Adam person ish/man could be found to do, because of the fall.
I'm really confused by what you just wrote. Jesus' soul existed before He became a man but He was never God. He was always Himself. God is another personality. We all have different personalities and that is what makes us unique. Jesus raised His own consciousness to acquire attributes of God. He never became or was God. God alone, by Himself. Jesus always referred to His Father in Heaven. He never said to pray to Himself. Not once did He tell anyone to worship Him or pray to Him.
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Old 02-24-2010, 03:40 PM
 
1,736 posts, read 1,959,822 times
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Originally Posted by Reverend1111 View Post
Jesus never proclaimed to be God. It was later added to the NT to explain away the miracles that were performed. Of course, not all of the miracles are true. Jesus is now and will always be a son of God as we are sons/daughters of God.
If God ever left His place in the universe, we would all cease to exist. And besides, why would He need to come to only one of His planets when He has billions. God knows and sees all so He would have no need to come here disguised as Jesus.
Are you then saying that Jesus was a miracle working man?

Where can I get me some of them thare miracles?

Regards
DL
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Old 02-24-2010, 03:50 PM
 
1,243 posts, read 1,418,925 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Greatest I am View Post
explain how in the beginning, Jesus was alive before his mother was even born.
Jesus wasn't in the flesh before his mother was born! He exists spiritually outside of time- just as we all do.
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Old 02-24-2010, 03:51 PM
 
Location: Jacksonville,Florida
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ABC,Easy as 1-2-3
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