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Old 06-02-2007, 10:12 AM
 
Location: Nashville, Tn
7,916 posts, read 17,448,563 times
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There have been a number of posts on various threads when questions have come up about how people should interpret the OT versus the NT. I don't think there's a clear consensus even among believers. A few of us have mentioned how there's so much violence in the OT and how it appears that Christians are being instructed to stone people to death for working on the sabbath or being disrespectful to their parents etc. I don't think that's a misinterpretation, it's stated quite clearly. Of course people don't really stone people today (except in the Middle East) so it's clear that there are some parts of the Bible that people don't follow anymore. Is this because the NT has outdated these ideas with a more enlightened point of view? And if you agree that there's certain parts of the Bible that people don't have to follow anymore, which parts are they and how would you know? Also, if this is true then isn't the Bible contradicting itself?
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Old 06-02-2007, 10:29 AM
 
Location: ARK-KIN-SAW
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I have a link to a website that may help with this..Introdcution to the New and Old Testaments
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Old 06-02-2007, 11:45 AM
 
Location: Helena, MT
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Growing up in church, I was basically told that the New Testament is the convenant we must live by and the Old Testament is a teaching tool. I understood from Christian perspective that the Jewish people must still adhere to the covenant of the OT because they did not accept Jesus as the messiah and thus did not accept the NT. The NT is a to a code of law (like city statutes) as the OT is a book of etiquette (more like a guide).
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Old 06-02-2007, 12:33 PM
 
Location: Texas
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Default Covenants

MG-

I'm not the best to explain this but since I'm such a blabbermouth I have to insert my 2 cents worth and hopefully some people will come behind me and do a better job elaborating on it. The old testament and the new testament are two separate covenants God has made with His people. The first is a covenant of law, the second a covenant of grace. St. Paul writes a lot about the purpose of the "law" in the book of Galations. He writes

"...that a man is not justified by the works of the Law but through faith in Christ Jesus, even we have believed in Christ Jesus that we may be justified by faith in Christ, and not by the works of the Law; since by the works of the Law shall no flesh be justified." Galationas 2:16 NASB

The law was given as kind of a guide or as St. Paul writes, a tutor, until the fulness of time (Christ and the new covenant) came.

"Therefore the Law has become our tutor to lead us to Christ, that we may be justified by faith. But now that faith has come, we are not longer under a tutor." Galations 3:23-25 NASB



In other words, the first covenant given to the Jews by God was valid but the fulfillment of it was in Christ which is the new covenant. Now we are under the new covenant which is a covenant of grace through faith in Jesus. This is not because it is a more enlightened point of view, no. The second is a fulfillment of the first.

Really, it helps to read the entire chapter of Galations and possibly Hebrews to get a good picture of how the covenants relate.
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Old 06-02-2007, 12:38 PM
 
Location: Nashville, Tn
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Thanks for the responses. That web link was pretty informative too.
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Old 06-02-2007, 07:47 PM
 
Location: Helena, MT
373 posts, read 1,753,665 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lorelei2873 View Post
Growing up in church, I was basically told that the New Testament is the convenant we must live by and the Old Testament is a teaching tool. I understood from Christian perspective that the Jewish people must still adhere to the covenant of the OT because they did not accept Jesus as the messiah and thus did not accept the NT. The NT is a to a code of law (like city statutes) as the OT is a book of etiquette (more like a guide).
I meant to say "is to a book of etiquette." I'm not saying the OT literally is a book of etiquette. I just wanted to throw that in before any readers get offended.
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Old 06-02-2007, 09:56 PM
 
Location: Anywhere but here!
2,800 posts, read 9,542,025 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MontanaGuy View Post
There have been a number of posts on various threads when questions have come up about how people should interpret the OT versus the NT. I don't think there's a clear consensus even among believers. A few of us have mentioned how there's so much violence in the OT and how it appears that Christians are being instructed to stone people to death for working on the sabbath or being disrespectful to their parents etc. I don't think that's a misinterpretation, it's stated quite clearly. Of course people don't really stone people today (except in the Middle East) so it's clear that there are some parts of the Bible that people don't follow anymore. Is this because the NT has outdated these ideas with a more enlightened point of view? And if you agree that there's certain parts of the Bible that people don't have to follow anymore, which parts are they and how would you know? Also, if this is true then isn't the Bible contradicting itself?
No, the Bible isn't contradicting itself. You see, in the Old Testament, people offered burnt offerings such as killing a lamb (needed a blood sacrifice). I'm not going to sit here and tell you that the OT was not bloody and violent...that would be a complete LIE! I know it is hard for one to think that such a loving God would allow or condone such awful things. However, we also need to look at it as the justice system of the times . Although harsh, those were the laws. But then God sent His Son to change all of that. Jesus was put here as the LAST blood sacrifice that will ever be needed!
Back in the OT, the same thing went on then as it does now. We all have free will. There was also a justice system in place. Although we have a loving God, God HATES sin! Therefore there were laws in place for specific sins. If you read Leviticus 18 you will see specific instances of and punishment for incest. that is just one example.
Then God sent Jesus...So now, instead of the old Commandments as far as killing, adultery etc. Jesus put a new light on these things. Jesus was here, in human form, as the Perfect example of how we should live our lives. So instead of actually having to kill someone in order for it to be a sin, now all you have to do is hate someone and it is the same as committing murder in your heart.
I would post all of the Ten Commandments, however, I think everyone is pretty familiar with those...therefore I will post only some of the NEW Commandments that Jesus gave while on Earth:

John 13:33-35
33 Little children, yet a little while I am with you. Ye shall seek me: and as I said unto the Jews, Whither I go, ye cannot come; so now I say to you.
34 A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another.
35 By this shall all men know that ye are my disciples, if ye have love one to another.

1 John 3:14-16
14 We know that we have passed from death unto life, because we love the brethren. He that loveth not his brother abideth in death.
15 Whosoever hateth his brother is a murderer: and ye know that no murderer hath eternal life abiding in him.
16 Hereby perceive we the love of God, because he laid down his life for us: and we ought to lay down our lives for the brethren.

1 John 4:19-21
19 We love him, because he first loved us.
20 If a man say, I love God, and hateth his brother, he is a liar: for he that loveth not his brother whom he hath seen, how can he love God whom he hath not seen?
21 And this commandment have we from him, That he who loveth God love his brother also.

Matthew 5:27-29
27 Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery:
28 But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.
29 And if thy right eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell.

There are more if you want them...
The only thing that really changed is that Jesus was nailed to the Cross and shed His blood for our sins...
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Old 06-29-2009, 02:17 AM
 
Location: Seattle Area of Wa.
62 posts, read 100,668 times
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The shedding of blood is not required by G-d in the Jewish religion for atonement!!!!!
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Old 06-29-2009, 05:19 AM
 
Location: Nowhere'sville
2,345 posts, read 4,051,517 times
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OT=God bad
NT=God good
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Old 06-29-2009, 05:38 AM
 
Location: Kenmore, WA
7,510 posts, read 6,878,789 times
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Thumbs up Contrary to popular belief

Quote:
Originally Posted by MontanaGuy View Post
... isn't the Bible contradicting itself?
It wasn't formed to provide literal instruction, so the question is mute.

If you perform any serious study of the Bible's origins, and the intent of the creators, you will learn that the Bible is actually a collection of a number of different cultural myths that were combined, reconstructed to fit that present day, and then reconstructed to fit the changing times and sentiments, until at a point MUCH later, the different churches decided to FREEZE it's version.

Have you noticed how many DIFFERENT versions and translations exist, today?

The Bible, in any of its forms, was NEVER expected to be used literally. The stories are EXAMPLEs, some scholars use the term "parables" to demonstrate to the reader what the results are of different responses to different situations. For example, responding with an "eye for an eye" (vengeance or retribution) results in escalation of aggression and social strife. Recall the statement "from GOD": Vengeance is MINE?

When Christ decided to be crucified, and yes HE was the one to decide, he had determined that the only way to get people to stop acting on past misdeeds was to give himself up for all those that felt guilty about their past, so they could go and sin no more.

Unfortunately, when Paul rewrote history in the form of the New Testament, he sort of altered Christ's intentions, to promote his own agenda.

Then, feeling compelled to follow suit, many since have done the same thing.

If you REALLY want to understand the Bible, read it about four times in succession. While you are doing that, read several different biblical scholars writings about the history and formation of the different translations. You will see underlying threads of truth to the different interpreter's thoughts. It's THOSE underlying truths that are going to get you to the real story.

Meanwhile, reading why societies need myths, and how our myths have changed to meet social needs over the centuries is a fascinating study. Other great works include the Hindi's Upanishads, or the larger Vedas, the Islamic Quran, the Icelandic Epic Sagas, and others.

If you read these for yourself, without getting caught in the stories but looking for what the stories are telling, you will discover how the Christian Bible, and the Jewish Torah do the same thing, differently.

Best wishes in your pursuit of universal truths.
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