Are christians persecuted in the US? (Buddhists, church, atheist, abortion)

[stretch00]

From the church-state separation thread.

Originally Posted by Marks

No, I don't think it's unrealistic. I'm keeping track of Christian persecution within the country as a project, and let me tell you there is evidence of an outright assault on my faith.

Marks (or anybody else) would you be willing to post a couple of examples?

From my point of view, I see christianity as being a coddled, protected religion in this country. I think that 'outright assault' is a bit much, and I outright do not believe persecution.

Some of this might rest on a definition of persecution, so let me propose one from Merriam Webster:

1 : to harass or punish in a manner designed to injure, grieve, or afflict; specifically : to cause to suffer because of belief

For the purposes of this discussion, can you give a few examples of how people cause christians suffer in this country because of their belief?

[JerZ]

No one should be persecuted.

But I would be interested to hear what forms this persecution is taking place.

If it's along the lines of persecution of non-Christians throughout history, then I'll be pretty horrified. I mean if Christians are being burned in odd places on the body (and in the body) with instruments designed specifically for that purpose, en masse; if pograms are tearing through Christian communities, burning homes and stealing household items; if Christians are being placed in camps, separated from their children, who, being little and not as able to work, are immediately killed, then boy, I'll sure have something to say about it.

But if it's something like having to take a manger out of the town square...then I'll probably be a little less upset over it, personally.

Again, no matter what form it takes, no person should be persecuted, for religion...color...sex...for whatever reason. I am sure I won't condone Christian persecution, but I think sometimes we, in today's rather coddled Western societies, don't really know what persecution is. Myself included, so I'm not pointing fingers on that score.

I'll check back later to see if Mark has responded with the study...

[Pathwalker]

Originally Posted by stretch00

1 : to harass or punish in a manner designed to injure, grieve, or afflict; specifically : to cause to suffer because of belief

Pay close attention to the wording of that definition. I'd say we certainly get harassed because of what we believe, wouldn't you?

Outright persecution? Okay, I'll say "no". I may have indicated otherwise in a different post, however I'll back off that for now. But certainly we get harassed and questioned because we express what we believe.

[MontanaGuy]

I think that the persecution, if you want to call it that, often takes the form of public ridicule. I think alot of Christians are offended because the stands they take on various issues and the sterotype of the fundamentalist are often made fun of. The problem as I see it is that many in the far right behave in such a manner that they often invite ridicule. I'm talking about the antics of people like Pat Robertson who make such preposterous statements that they provide comedians and commentators with enough material to make a career out of. In all fairness I think that fundamentalists would have to admit that they're doing the exact same thing on the other side. They've made the word Liberal a dirty word and are constantly on the offensive against gays, atheists and anyone who has an alternative point of view. This is clearly not persecution, it's called free speech, and because our society seems to be deeply divided along religious and cultural lines there's alot of free speech going on these days but that's what happens in a democracy and there's nothing wrong with it. In fact, our ability to say what we think allows people to express themselves as well as to learn from each other.

[stretch00]

Originally Posted by WCRob

Pay close attention to the wording of that definition. I'd say we certainly get harassed because of what we believe, wouldn't you?

Agreed. Lets pay close attention to the definition. Which stated:

to harass or punish in a manner designed to injure, grieve, or afflict; specifically : to cause to suffer because of belief

I have bolded the part that you seem to have left off.

I do not doubt that christians are occasionally harassed for their beliefs. Mocked even. But so are atheists, jews, buddhists and pagans. People are also harrassed for their skin color, their accents, their haircuts and their clothing choices.

This is all day to day stuff that we all need to put up with in one way or another.

My question is, does the harrassment of christians rise to the level of persecution? Is it worse than all those other types of harrassments that I just listed?

[deerislesmile]

I would be interested in a study that looked at the rate towards several religions, not just one (what good are the results if you have no comparison?)

Do you think many Christians feel persecuted because some of the Christian-based traditions in this country are changing/dissolving, with some people not wanting traditions based in Christianity, and they(Christians) see this as a slap in the face, a personal attack on religion?

[stretch00]

Hi deerisle...

I too would be interested in such a study, although I am not aware of one.

I really am not sure why christians feel persecuted. Maybe because the bible tells them that they will be, so they look for any example that will bolster this thought?

I certainly see no evidence that they are persecuted in the US.

[Mark S.]

Compared to what the early Church went through, we got it easy.

Keep in mind, too: According to Jesus, persecution is a pretty good sign that you're doing something right.

[stretch00]

I like your analysis. There is also the phenomenon that groups have more cohesion if they have an enemy. If christianity did not have conflict built into it from the foundation, would it have been as successful as it is (from a sociological point of view)?

[Pathwalker]

Originally Posted by stretch00

Agreed. Lets pay close attention to the definition. Which stated:

to harass or punish in a manner designed to injure, grieve, or afflict; specifically : to cause to suffer because of belief

I have bolded the part that you seem to have left off.

I do not doubt that christians are occasionally harassed for their beliefs. Mocked even. But so are atheists, jews, buddhists and pagans. People are also harrassed for their skin color, their accents, their haircuts and their clothing choices.

This is all day to day stuff that we all need to put up with in one way or another.

My question is, does the harrassment of christians rise to the level of persecution? Is it worse than all those other types of harrassments that I just listed?

I wasn't really trying to ignore the bolded part at all. To harass and punish are two separate things, so I simply stated we are harassed for what we believe. To be told our beliefs are based on fairy tales IS, in my opinion, a form of harassing with the intent to make one grieve. To be made to fear for our well-being because we speak out against abortion or sexual immorality IS, again in my opinion, a form of harassment in order to make one grieve. If you look up the definition of "grieve" you'll see that it is synonymous with "distress", of which one definition, by extention, means to cause one to feel upset.

How far do you want to continue in this contest of splitting hairs?

Keep in mind, I said nothing about Christians being the only ones. Plus, as I stated, I don't think Christians are persecuted in this country. I think I answered your question.