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Here is the funny thing about the supposed monopoly on morality that Christians falsely assume. Go to any society on the planet and you will find proscriptions against murder, bearing false witness, honoring one's parents and elders, and outside of those few societies which don't recognize the concept of private property you will find similar proscription against adultery and theft, all without the benefit of ever reading or hearing about the Moses, the 10 Commandments, the Bible or Heaven and Hell. Now if you don't find that remarkable, I don't know what does.
Well, if we want to play the picky game, Christians stole their morality from the Jews. The Code of Hammurabi predates Mosaic laws, but shares many similar concepts. The obvious answer? People of the same area came up with similar moral concepts, just as you've explained Ovcatto.
And "laws requiring law giver" is just pedantic tautology. Laws must be given, by definition, by a law giver. The "laws" we have are given by humans.
I don't think people need Christianity to understand morals but I also don't see how morality can be reached through logical survival instincts alone. Why care for the sick and unproductive? It's not reasonable to expect us to do that, yet we do - because of compassion and empathy.
If someone does not believe compassion, love and empathy are innate in humans then thank society for teaching people to be unreasonable and to help/care for the weak regardless of their logical value for the survival of the species.
Well, if we want to play the picky game, Christians stole their morality from the Jews. The Code of Hammurabi predates Mosaic laws, but shares many similar concepts.
Which of course brings up the question, if god's laws are some immutable, why the wholesale abandonment of Mosaic laws by Christians? Because Paul decided that adherence to those laws were inconvenient for recruiting non-Jewish converts?
I don't think people need Christianity to understand morals but I also don't see how morality can be reached through logical survival instincts alone. Why care for the sick and unproductive? It's not reasonable to expect us to do that, yet we do - because of compassion and empathy.
If someone does not believe compassion, love and empathy are innate in humans then thank society for teaching people to be unreasonable and to help/care for the weak regardless of their logical value for the survival of the species.
We want to be taken care of when we are unable to take care of ourselves. Taking care of others when they are unable to do so (I.E., sick and unproductive) means we can expect that behavior to be reciprocated in the future.
The evolution or morality is a well studied subject.
We want to be taken care of when we are unable to take care of ourselves. Taking care of others when they are unable to do so (I.E., sick and unproductive) means we can expect that behavior to be reciprocated in the future.
The evolution or morality is a well studied subject.
I have no doubt that morals have evolved. Just look at the difference between the OT commands to raze entire villages and Jesus' teaching to love your enemies.
But the above explanation you gave doesn't explain doing the right thing for it's own sake. In many many scenarios people help others survive even if it costs them their own lives (which would obviously preclude the hope of reciprocation you described). Reason, logic, survival instinct and hopes of getting something back for our sacrifice still leaves the highest morality untouched.
I don't think people need Christianity to understand morals but I also don't see how morality can be reached through logical survival instincts alone. Why care for the sick and unproductive? It's not reasonable to expect us to do that, yet we do - because of compassion and empathy.
If someone does not believe compassion, love and empathy are innate in humans then thank society for teaching people to be unreasonable and to help/care for the weak regardless of their logical value for the survival of the species.
Actually firstborn, even pack animals like wolves care for their sick and injured, so it's really not a stretch.
I have no doubt that morals have evolved. Just look at the difference between the OT commands to raze entire villages and Jesus' teaching to love your enemies.
But the above explanation you gave doesn't explain doing the right thing for it's own sake. In many many scenarios people help others survive even if it costs them their own lives (which would obviously preclude the hope of reciprocation you described). Reason, logic, survival instinct and hopes of getting something back for our sacrifice still leaves the highest morality untouched.
self-sacrifice allows for the continuation of the species. The survival of the species, specifically those species that are social, benefits directly the individual(s) of the species. I do good things for society because society is able to do good things for me.
That being said, self-sacrifice isn't necessarily the logical choice, but it is an emotional one. Also of note, depending on which moral philosophy one prescribes to, this could be different.
self-sacrifice allows for the continuation of the species. The survival of the species, specifically those species that are social, benefits directly the individual(s) of the species. I do good things for society because society is able to do good things for me.
That being said, self-sacrifice isn't necessarily the logical choice, but it is an emotional one. Also of note, depending on which moral philosophy one prescribes to, this could be different.
Right. I think the best argument an atheist can come up with for extremely exceptional morality (sacrificing/suffering with no benefit for humanity as a whole or self) is that people are emotional and irrational and illogical and too easily swayed by feelings of affection or moral duty.
Of course as a spiritually inclined person I completely reject it's all JUST for survival or the good of society. For example - in many ways health care costs are bankrupting our society but we have a moral sense to try and provide it anyway as much as possible. I do think it's love/empathy/compassion/conscience based and not cold hard logic based. Fairly illogical really (AISI).
We want to be taken care of when we are unable to take care of ourselves. Taking care of others when they are unable to do so (I.E., sick and unproductive) means we can expect that behavior to be reciprocated in the future.
The evolution or morality is a well studied subject.
We also understand that many animals, humans included, have the capacity to... dare I say, love other members of their species? That care and compassion is just as much a part of our genetic make up as any other emotion?
Actually firstborn, even pack animals like wolves care for their sick and injured, so it's really not a stretch.
Good example. I believe it's innate, not through reason or logic. I guess an atheist could say it's a holdover from when there were only a few humans instead of now when we are about to overpopulate the whole damned thing.
If that's the case, evolution has backfired and we need to logically stop trying to keep everyone alive. But, we will continue to be compassionate and even if you don't believe in God that is a higher consciousness than logic or reason (AISI).
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But, we will continue to be compassionate and even if you don't believe in God that is a higher consciousness than logic or reason (AISI).
