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KC,
I'm glad you posted that. It let me know where my explanation is deficient.
I think the problem here is that it's seems you define faith as: Belief in things that are disputed by "evidence" and "facts". And I see faith as the belief you have in things because you give credence to the facts or whatever else (like perception or intuition) you base the belief on. What I have been trying to explain is that you need faith in your "facts"...that they are accurate...to label them as such. So my view is that "FAITH" and "FACTS" are not mutually exclusive. I see it as: You could have faith without facts....You can faith in spite of contradictory facts...but you can't have facts without faith. MOF I believe the last part of that statement to such a degree I don't believe there is such a thing as a "fact"...only FAITH in the merit of the conclusions you come to. In summation again:: Ya gotta have FAITH!
All the best.
Are you suggesting that objective information requires faith to accept as fact?
No, you TRUST that tomorrow will come and that trust is based on the objective and verifiable evidence that it always has come in the past.
Yup...it's objective...it's verifiable...and fallible. You still COULD be wrong. Nothing you look at as "fact" is 100% absolute. You just have FAITH in the merit of your conclusion...that tomorrow will come, that there is a God, that there isn't a God, or whatever else you think or are considering. Facts cannot ever be absolute...but FAITH can be.
Remember--There is no such thing as a "fact". "Fact" is just a label people use when they have ABSOLUTE FAITH their conclusion is correct.
Are you suggesting that objective information requires faith to accept as fact?
Objective information is just that...objective information. That is what people call information they have ABSOLUTE FAITH is accurate and correct...then they refer to that information as "a fact".
There are no "FACTS". Only information we have ABSOLUTE FAITH is accurate and correct. Of course it might not be...so what you thought was a fact, turned out was not. Your FAITH though, could still have been absolute, just misplaced. You CAN'T BE 100% sure of your information...but you CAN BE 100% sure of your faith...even in information you CAN'T BE 100% sure of.
No, you TRUST that tomorrow will come and that trust is based on the objective and verifiable evidence that it always has come in the past.
Faith is trust.
It is also knowing. Considering that one person can't do every scientific experiment, every bit of research in history, read every volume on literature, check every peice of equipment, we take a lot of life on faith.
No it isn't. Faith is the belief that something is true even though there is no evidence to support it and it can't be shown to be true. e.g. I have faith that god exists even though I can't prove that he does.
Trust is the acceptance that something is going to happen based on the objective and verifiable evidence that shows that it has always happened in the past. e.g. I trust that the sun will rise in the East because it can be verified that it has always done so before.
No it isn't. Faith is the belief that something is true even though there is no evidence to support it and it can't be shown to be true. e.g. I have faith that god exists even though I can't prove that he does.
Trust is the acceptance that something is going to happen based on the objective and verifiable evidence that shows that it has always happened in the past. e.g. I trust that the sun will rise in the East because it can be verified that it has always done so before.
Com'on Raf'...you can do better than that. It's obvious to me (and anyone else reading this thread) that there are a lot of very intelligent people here...and at a risk of puffing your head...it appears you are one of the "top-guns". So I'm surprised to see something that weak. Trust is synonymous with faith. No trust = no faith, and visa-versa. Your argument looks like it came from "The Bill Clinton School of Semantic Cha-Cha"...just put up for the sake of argument or the "crank factor". I know about that...I do it myself. With *both* Faith and Trust you need to be able to have a confident expectation in what you have placed faith or trust. In *both* cases it has to be something/someone you have determined you can rely/depend on. You can have faith in verifiable evidence...and you can have trust in intuition/perception that has nothing more than intuition/perception to back it up. Either could be well placed, or misplaced. Bottom Line: The accuracy/merit/proof/evidence of the source of the backing information that constrains you to have faith/trust in something/someone, has absolutely nothing to do with defining a difference between faith and trust.
I don't know why I am saying this but it is a true story.
I know i will be labeled a crackpot but here goes.
A few years ago I lived in Chilton county Alabama and worked in Birmingham. Every day I would pass this mountain. I decided I would test this "faith" thing. I was going to convince myself that this mountain was going to move. It took a lot of convincng but I convinced myself this mountain was going to move. I knew it was going to move. I did not place any restrictions on how it was going to move it was just going to move.
So a week went by...nothing...2 weeks nothing...But then about a month later they put up some kind of a structure on this "hill". A few weeks later they brought in a rock crusher and a couple of D9 bulldozers. The crushed that mountain put it on trucks and hauled it to the concrete plant.
Within a year that mountain moved, all over Birmingham.
mabeynot,
If you are not pulling our collective chains...one of two things occurred::
1. A coincidence. A one in a million shot...but hey, people hit the lotto at much greater odds, or.
2. A sign from some "force" that was capable of compelling your thoughts to create a "test of faith" that would be made manifest in actuality...so to bolster your faith.
It could have been a coincidence.
It could have been anything...all I know is that the mountain moved.
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Faith
