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Old 03-18-2010, 10:32 PM
 
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One thing I would be questioning is why scientists refuse to carbon date dinosaur bones as they would anything else. Or the fact that it is only unreliable when the bones are past a certain age...since it is believed that the dinosaurs were on the earth when they thought it twas. Digging alittle deeper shows that in fact when carbon dating dinosaur bones it places the age of the dinosaurs around the time of the Bible instead of many years before that. I'm just saying this because science found the Bible to be right, and their own method of dating dinosaurs changed because they didn't want to believe what the results turned out to be.
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Old 03-18-2010, 10:55 PM
 
1,743 posts, read 2,161,183 times
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Originally Posted by ChrisPalmer View Post
One thing I would be questioning is why scientists refuse to carbon date dinosaur bones as they would anything else. Or the fact that it is only unreliable when the bones are past a certain age...since it is believed that the dinosaurs were on the earth when they thought it twas. Digging alittle deeper shows that in fact when carbon dating dinosaur bones it places the age of the dinosaurs around the time of the Bible instead of many years before that. I'm just saying this because science found the Bible to be right, and their own method of dating dinosaurs changed because they didn't want to believe what the results turned out to be.
Uhm, carbon dating isn't used on dinosaur bones, namely because any carbon atoms they might have contained has long since been exhausted. That dating method is really only used on organic items that are at most 100,000 years old.

Fortunately, there are still many highly reliable methods for dating dinosaur fossils and they all are in agreement that the last dinosaurs lived and died out around 65 millions of years ago.
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Old 03-19-2010, 12:12 AM
 
Location: Victoria, BC.
33,566 posts, read 37,168,881 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisPalmer View Post
One thing I would be questioning is why scientists refuse to carbon date dinosaur bones as they would anything else. Or the fact that it is only unreliable when the bones are past a certain age...since it is believed that the dinosaurs were on the earth when they thought it twas. Digging alittle deeper shows that in fact when carbon dating dinosaur bones it places the age of the dinosaurs around the time of the Bible instead of many years before that. I'm just saying this because science found the Bible to be right, and their own method of dating dinosaurs changed because they didn't want to believe what the results turned out to be.
You need to stop believing those creationist web sites...That is a total crock.
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Old 03-19-2010, 02:01 AM
 
1,243 posts, read 1,568,280 times
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Originally Posted by QuixoticHobbit View Post
As apparently are the first few words of several hundred other creation myths, including the one the Bible was based off of.
The Bible wasn't based on any existing myth. That is a deliberate lie propagated by irresponsible persons in what passes for universities, and eagerly lapped up by ignorant people only too ready to criticise Christianity. The ancients did not care about the 'science' or the history of their myths. Today we are obsessed by facts, and have scant moral and spiritual concern (or that is the way we prefer to say we think). It was the other way around with the ancients. The purpose of ancient myths was to make ethical frameworks for their societies, and the 'facts' involved were incidental. It is very true that Israel's versions of myths shared some of these 'facts', but the messages that they conveyed constituted the polar opposite of the moral ethos of the surrounding cultures. This combination of familiar factual 'skeleton' but very different 'flesh' was, and remains, what makes them so potent. One might even see the hand of God in the myths and indeed practices of pagans that lent themselves so readily to the understanding of Christian concepts.
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Old 03-19-2010, 02:26 AM
 
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The earth is very old or recent; it does not matter.
What is important is that they misunderstood the word of God.

The earth was created in 6000 years: it means the earth was transformed from a flaming sun to an earth with a cold crust within a period of 6000 of our years.

But when this transformation occurred? God only knows: it happened since long time: certainly more than 6000 years; but I think it is less than these billions of years.

God –be exalted –said also in the Quran 41: 9-12
قُلْ أَئِنَّكُمْ لَتَكْفُرُونَ بِالَّذِي خَلَقَ الْأَرْضَ فِي يَوْمَيْنِ وَتَجْعَلُونَ لَهُ أَندَادًا ذَلِكَ رَبُّ الْعَالَمِينَ . وَجَعَلَ فِيهَا رَوَاسِيَ مِن فَوْقِهَا وَبَارَكَ فِيهَا وَقَدَّرَ فِيهَا أَقْوَاتَهَا فِي أَرْبَعَةِ أَيَّامٍ سَوَاء لِّلسَّائِلِينَ . ثُمَّ اسْتَوَى إِلَى السَّمَاء وَهِيَ دُخَانٌ فَقَالَ لَهَا وَلِلْأَرْضِ اِئْتِيَا طَوْعًا أَوْ كَرْهًا قَالَتَا أَتَيْنَا طَائِعِينَ . فَقَضَاهُنَّ سَبْعَ سَمَاوَاتٍ فِي يَوْمَيْنِ...

The explanation:
( [O Mohammed] say [to the idolaters]: “Do you, then, disbelieve in [God] Who created the earth in two days, and do you ascribe to Him opponents? –That is the Lord of [all] the worlds!”

“And He made [mountains] that landed upon it, blessed it, and apportioned therein its sustenance in four days; alike for those who ask [provision.]”
“Then He tended to [build]* the sky and it had been smoke; He said to it and to the earth, ‘Come, both of you, willingly or loath.’ The two said, ‘We [all] have come obedient.’
“And He separated them into seven firmaments in two days …etc.” )

[*i.e. to make the layers of the gaseous sky distinctive, and to build or to arrange it in successive layers.]

The interpretation:
>> (created the earth in two days) means: in two thousand years; for one day of God’s days equals one thousand of our years, according to our days,

as is it mentioned in the Psalms 89: 3-4
“3… saying, “Return to dust, O sons of men.”
4 For a thousand years in your sight are like a day …”

The ‘creation’ is the transformation from one thing [or form] to another;

therefore, (Who created the earth in two days) means: He transformed it into an earth after being a sun, and that lasted a period of two thousand years; this is the time during which the surface of that sun became cold, that sun whose life had ended.

>> (and He made [mountains] that landed upon it); that which heavily landed upon the earth, are the mountains. This can be explained as follows:
That sun had been transformed into an earth after the cooling of its surface, then the meteorites started to fall down on it to become the mountains. Therefore, most of the mountains on the earth surface were originally meteorites.

>> (and blessed it) means: He increased its size, and that was by many factors:

First: The crust of the earth started gradually to be more and more cold; so this increased its thickness.

Second: The falling down of meteorites upon it increased its mass and volume.

Third: The falling down of minute particles upon it (these are the fine particles that we see in a beam of sun rays entering a dark room through a window.) The origin of these particles are from meteorites which were broken up after their Doomsday, so that their parts scattered in the space.

Fourth: The metals increased its volume and size by combination with other elements, e.g. the oxygen may combine with iron, so it will increase in its volume, and ferric oxide will result; and carbon dioxide combines with calcium forming calcium carbonate; and nitrogen combines with sodium and potassium resulting in sodium nitrate and potassium nitrate; and so on gases combine with most of the metals so increasing their volume, and by this way the Earth size goes on increasing with the passing of time and years.

>> (and apportioned therein its sustenance) means: He made the fall of rain upon it, and created the plant, trees and animals; to be as sustenance and provision for man; in other words: He apportioned these things as sustenance for man when He would create him on Earth; because He –be exalted –had created these things and prepared them for man before did He create man upon it, exactly just as had He created the breast of the woman before did He create the fetus in her womb.

>> (in four days) means: He created all these things during a period of four thousand years; so the total is six thousand years; because the cooling of the Earth lasted two thousand years,

as He said –be exalted –in the Quran 32: 4
اللَّهُ الَّذِي خَلَقَ السَّمَاوَاتِ وَالْأَرْضَ وَمَا بَيْنَهُمَا فِي سِتَّةِ أَيَّامٍ ثُمَّ اسْتَوَى عَلَى الْعَرْشِ...
The explanation:
(It is God Who created the heavens and the earth and that which is between them in six [of the] days [of the Hereafter.] Then He mounted the throne …)

‘The heavens and the earth’ means the planets

The Universe and the Quran
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Old 03-19-2010, 02:43 AM
 
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Originally Posted by eanassir View Post
also in the Quran
Also? Why did Allah/God wait for 1600 years before putting a wrong interpretation right?
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Old 03-19-2010, 04:53 AM
 
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do you think that cristianity would have more believers if the bible stated the world was 4.5 billion years old
Probably not but it could mean that there would be a higher percentage of bible literalists amongst Christians. Scary stuff.
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Old 03-19-2010, 05:33 AM
 
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Originally Posted by coosjoaquin View Post
Probably not but it could mean that there would be a higher percentage of bible literalists amongst Christians.
Though not of them.
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Old 03-19-2010, 06:04 AM
 
Location: S. Wales.
50,088 posts, read 20,761,076 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shibata View Post
The Bible wasn't based on any existing myth. That is a deliberate lie propagated by irresponsible persons in what passes for universities, and eagerly lapped up by ignorant people only too ready to criticise Christianity. The ancients did not care about the 'science' or the history of their myths. Today we are obsessed by facts, and have scant moral and spiritual concern (or that is the way we prefer to say we think). It was the other way around with the ancients. The purpose of ancient myths was to make ethical frameworks for their societies, and the 'facts' involved were incidental. It is very true that Israel's versions of myths shared some of these 'facts', but the messages that they conveyed constituted the polar opposite of the moral ethos of the surrounding cultures. This combination of familiar factual 'skeleton' but very different 'flesh' was, and remains, what makes them so potent. One might even see the hand of God in the myths and indeed practices of pagans that lent themselves so readily to the understanding of Christian concepts.
I take your point, but I'd ask what makes you so sure that Judaism and Christianity can't have at least adapted some pre - existent myths in order to, for example, achieve parity with other religions, to adapt material to fill out missing bits? You call it a deliberate lie. but you'd first need to show that it couldn't be true. That it had been suggested in universities and may not help religious Faith very much is not a good reason in itself to dismiss it as a lie.

Today we are obssessed with facts. Passing over the heavily slanted teminology, I'd agree. And it's better that we should be relying on that rather than on guesswork, supposition and legend. Track record shows that 'fact' finding is nore reliable than the best guesswork that the ancients did.

So they wanted to make ethical frameworks for their societies. I agree. What does that prove? We still want to do the same, but it's far better that we do it on the basis of reason and logic than on personal preference propped up with authority vested in a collection of pick - and- mix myths.
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Old 03-19-2010, 06:53 AM
 
1,243 posts, read 1,568,280 times
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Originally Posted by AREQUIPA View Post
I take your point, but I'd ask what makes you so sure that Judaism and Christianity can't have at least adapted some pre - existent myths in order to, for example, achieve parity with other religions, to adapt material to fill out missing bits?
Such as what?

Quote:
You call it a deliberate lie.
It's true about modern unis, because the record stands in much literature until recent years that scholarship has accepted the interpretation I outlined. Many people are too young and uneducated to know any better.

Quote:
Today we are obssessed with facts. Passing over the heavily slanted teminology, I'd agree. And it's better that we should be relying on that rather than on guesswork, supposition and legend.
Then read my posts.

And don't confuse yourself.
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