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Old 04-10-2010, 08:54 AM
 
1,736 posts, read 2,105,646 times
Reputation: 138

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Quote:
Originally Posted by look3467 View Post

Now, I would and will object to any ones beliefs who would threaten hurt to others.

Blessings, AJ
Then you will object to Christianities literal readers and fundamentals.

Just Google killing African witches or Jesus camps and start objecting.

Regards
DL
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Old 04-10-2010, 08:56 AM
 
1,736 posts, read 2,105,646 times
Reputation: 138
Quote:
Originally Posted by Huckleberry3911948 View Post
lots of contradictions in the bible.
more than 1 person doing the writing and talking remember men wrote it not god.
as to this passage. i think its both. we are responsible for our own stuff, but our bad actions affect future generations.
Sure but we do not, as Christianity does, pass on the blame or sins to our children.

Regards
DL
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Old 04-10-2010, 09:11 AM
 
1,168 posts, read 1,235,541 times
Reputation: 88
Quote:
Originally Posted by Greatest I am View Post
Does this kill the concept of original sin and the sacrifice of Jesus?

Does it also kill the idea that sin is passed down to the children and say that if Adam and Eve lost eternal life, that lose is not passed on to their children.

"The son shall not suffer for the iniquity of the father, nor the father suffer for the iniquity of the son; the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon himself, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon himself." (Ezekiel 18:20)
This quote seems to clearly say that we are all responsible for our sins and that none of that responsibility can be taken away and remains our own.
It also indicates that no sin, or original sin, is passed on to our children.
This seems a just way to go.
Why baptism then?

“and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon himself."

This does not indicate that Jesus can take sin upon himself.
It does say that each of us must carry that load, not a scapegoat Jesus.
If so, then there is no sacrifice on the cross for Jesus and ---why have you forsaken me ----- is answered with, it is not your place or moral to take responsibilities away from those who must carry their own loads.
Does the above change your views of the vicarious redemption of Jesus or original sin?

Regards
DL
Here Here hear the words of sin...Sin = Disobediance of God's word and will.

Our forefathers have devised a system which its foundations are based on breaking of the first and second commandments of God.!!!

We the children are born into this system.
Before we are indoctrinated into it...we are sinless.
But before long, we are numbered, marked, labled, and brought into the system working no longer for GOD, but for ourselves...and we work now for Money...which is the foundation to which the system is based on.
So the sins of our forefathers, becomes our sin if we follow them and do as they did...Breaking the commandments , word and will, of God!

Now If we are born into sin...as it also says we are...for Satan or should it be known $ATAN rules over this system!
And thus we have constant death to show signs of it!

Now working for God is working for free!
Now working for God is working in the Garden!
Now working for God is working to be sinless!
Now working for God is sharing and caring the right way!

For God Shares everything...we being the children of God, also share everything...

That means no money (engraven Idols)...Read it and weep...for the whole world is doing Just that....thinking they are doing good...when they are not!

That is what Jesus was pointing out, when he kicked the money out of his fathers house, and said, "Your making a den of robbers and thieves"

The first degree money makes is poverty!
The second degree money makes is destitution!
The thrid degree Money makes is lies and liars!
The fourth degree money makes is the delusion of doing good!

And God said not to make it, or have it before him...

Thus work for God...share...be kind...be caring...be good...and do some work in the garden to help make food....do it sinlessly and be forgiven...

Well that is up to the doer....And that is what God wants from us...to tend and keep the garden well.
And by looking at what is being built today, with all the pollution going on....I'd say we are not doing as God wanted....if all life is now in jeopardy because of the industrial nightmare that now has rights to deploy acceptable levels of toxins into the enviroments to which we need clean and presteen...

Hmmmm?

What is it we are being born into?....SIN!...doing the opposite of God's intended reason for making us....To tend and keep...is now to pollute and end....

Funny lines of paradoxes are showing....our actions are being noted!
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Old 04-10-2010, 09:39 AM
 
Location: Redding, Ca
1,248 posts, read 1,257,423 times
Reputation: 125
Except one experiences the presence of God within, there can not be an expression of God without.

That is very evident as the expression is both in word and deed.

One may not acknowledge a God as such, yet, one may still express God in word and deed.

What was given to mankind was the ability to practice good or to practice evil.

The witness of practicing good comes only from God, for mankind is inclined naturally to practice evil, since we are embedded in a world conducive towards satisfying of the flesh.

From whence does practicing good come from, save the spiritual?

Have we not all the worlds goods to indulge ourselves without limit?

Except God in us give us strength to overcome this world, we are hopeless in our own strength to do so.

There lies the dilemma, and that is, in the acknowledgment of a superior entity residing in us as guidance towards the realm of the good.

We all posses that ability as the conscience gives evidence, but to acknowledge its presences as God within us, is another matter.

Evidence of the existence of God is everywhere to be seen, as in the orderly arranged system of the planets, the arrangements of the micro-isms, the vast assortments of the animal world and finally, the good that comes from within us.

Not to see any of that is to be spiritually blind to the God of that creation, even though, He lies dormant, as like a seed of faith within us, waiting to be awakened by our will of acknowledgment.

Listen: Whether you believe in God or not, God has made provisions for you, much like the choice you had in coming into this world.

Ref: JOB 20:29 This is the portion of a wicked man from God, and the heritage appointed unto him by God.

"This is the portion of a wicked man" = this is what Jesus gets from the wicked. He takes their sin; he gets their curses because of sin. "And the heritage" = Jesus also gets them. They have been cleansed by his taking sin; they have got the righteousness of Christ on them, now he takes the persons into the body of Christ:


PSA 2:8 Ask of me, and I shall give thee the heathen for thine inheritance, and the uttermost parts of the earth for thy possession.
PSA 94:14 For the Lord will not cast off his people, neither will he forsake his inheritance.
JOH 10:16 And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.

PSA 18:43 Thou hast delivered me from the strivings of the people; and thou hast made me the head of the heathen: a people whom I have not known shall serve me.
PSA 18:44 As soon as they hear of me, they shall obey me: the strangers shall submit themselves unto me.


JOB 21:3 Suffer me that I may speak; and after that I have spoken, mock on.

JOB 21:4 As for me, is my complaint to man? and if it were so, why should not my spirit be troubled?


Job had his friends advising him about matters that did not pertain to the spiritual, but rather to the evident things of the world.

Had Job listened to them, his spirit would surely be troubled since within him, the spirit of God gave him peace, confidence and strength to endure.

E regardless of your beliefs, God had looked at you in a spirit of unconditional love, for He has given mankind a son (New Adam)by which all forgiveness is channeled through, that being Jesus.

Blessings, AJ








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Old 04-10-2010, 09:59 AM
 
1,168 posts, read 1,235,541 times
Reputation: 88
Quote:
Originally Posted by look3467 View Post
Except one experiences the presence of God within, there can not be an expression of God without.

That is very evident as the expression is both in word and deed.

One may not acknowledge a God as such, yet, one may still express God in word and deed.

What was given to mankind was the ability to practice good or to practice evil.

The witness of practicing good comes only from God, for mankind is inclined naturally to practice evil, since we are embedded in a world conducive towards satisfying of the flesh.

From whence does practicing good come from, save the spiritual?

Have we not all the worlds goods to indulge ourselves without limit?

Except God in us give us strength to overcome this world, we are hopeless in our own strength to do so.

There lies the dilemma, and that is, in the acknowledgment of a superior entity residing in us as guidance towards the realm of the good.

We all posses that ability as the conscience gives evidence, but to acknowledge its presences as God within us, is another matter.

Evidence of the existence of God is everywhere to be seen, as in the orderly arranged system of the planets, the arrangements of the micro-isms, the vast assortments of the animal world and finally, the good that comes from within us.

Not to see any of that is to be spiritually blind to the God of that creation, even though, He lies dormant, as like a seed of faith within us, waiting to be awakened by our will of acknowledgment.

Listen: Whether you believe in God or not, God has made provisions for you, much like the choice you had in coming into this world.

Ref: JOB 20:29 This is the portion of a wicked man from God, and the heritage appointed unto him by God.

"This is the portion of a wicked man" = this is what Jesus gets from the wicked. He takes their sin; he gets their curses because of sin. "And the heritage" = Jesus also gets them. They have been cleansed by his taking sin; they have got the righteousness of Christ on them, now he takes the persons into the body of Christ:


PSA 2:8 Ask of me, and I shall give thee the heathen for thine inheritance, and the uttermost parts of the earth for thy possession.
PSA 94:14 For the Lord will not cast off his people, neither will he forsake his inheritance.
JOH 10:16 And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.

PSA 18:43 Thou hast delivered me from the strivings of the people; and thou hast made me the head of the heathen: a people whom I have not known shall serve me.
PSA 18:44 As soon as they hear of me, they shall obey me: the strangers shall submit themselves unto me.


JOB 21:3 Suffer me that I may speak; and after that I have spoken, mock on.

JOB 21:4 As for me, is my complaint to man? and if it were so, why should not my spirit be troubled?


Job had his friends advising him about matters that did not pertain to the spiritual, but rather to the evident things of the world.

Had Job listened to them, his spirit would surely be troubled since within him, the spirit of God gave him peace, confidence and strength to endure.

E regardless of your beliefs, God had looked at you in a spirit of unconditional love, for He has given mankind a son (New Adam)by which all forgiveness is channeled through, that being Jesus.

Blessings, AJ









Yes, YES...YES...A new Adam...Placed in a new EDEN...and that is just what I am trying to convey....Jesus said he is making all things new...Starting from square one with God...in a new world...

Now that we know this...exactly how did Jesus become chosen by God?

By fulfilling the first instruction..."Tending and keeping the garden" with all seeds, and caring for the living!
And he did it all for free!

And that was gaining a following...and so the rulers of wealth wanted him dead!

Now if we follow in Jesus's footsteps...we have to kick something out of our house, and make it God's house.
We also have to remove the delusion that certain plants are bad, when God made them Good....and we should not contend with changing what God made Good...Acts 10:15
For to profane something God made Good, makes us the agent of Satan!

Taking care of the inheritance (planet Earth) which is wild, but is to be made tame...by sowing of all seeds....and sharing the produce of our labours with all life.

Was Noah wrong to save them...our neighbours?...what about the restoration of EDEN, and its multiples?...which God instructed us to make?

Ah...that is the key to the kingdom of God...which is many parts removed.

Jesus says God has many mansions.

So this world can be made into Edens...and that I think is the best policy one can bring to the table...it is sound thinking, logical, and acceptable to all intelligent beings!

Take care of the planet in a sinless way...and share.

Now that cuts the throat of the sinners who live off the taxed hand doing nothing but making more sin!

YES...YES...YES.

Kick it out of our houses, our lives, and our minds...and by doing the right thing...Tending and keeping the garden....we take care of the heritage of the world for future generations to come.

That makes perfect sense!

Money now lies...as to its true value....it is always changing...and yet it says on it it is worth X amount...when it is not intirely true!

See all lies come from the liar $atan!
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Old 04-10-2010, 11:09 AM
 
Location: Redding, Ca
1,248 posts, read 1,257,423 times
Reputation: 125
Quote:
Yes, YES...YES...A new Adam...Placed in a new EDEN...and that is just what I am trying to convey....Jesus said he is making all things new...Starting from square one with God...in a new world...
That was the intent!

Quote:
By fulfilling the first instruction..."Tending and keeping the garden" with all seeds, and caring for the living!
And he did it all for free!
Need to take your eyes off the earthly garden and view it instead with your spiritual eyes.


Quote:
And that was gaining a following...and so the rulers of wealth wanted him dead!
There is a reason for everything including those who wanted them dead.
The resultant from that is what was desired.

Quote:
Now if we follow in Jesus's footsteps...we have to kick something out of our house, and make it God's house.
We also have to remove the delusion that certain plants are bad, when God made them Good....and we should not contend with changing what God made Good...Acts 10:15
For to profane something God made Good, makes us the agent of Satan!
Remember, evil comes from within us, as we have the ability, the potential to do evil, so I wouldn't be so quick to blame something, or someone other than ourselves.

Evil is a termed used as an adversary of good.

In this world we strive for good in the midst of the adversary, self.

Quote:
Taking care of the inheritance (planet Earth) which is wild, but is to be made tame...by sowing of all seeds....and sharing the produce of our labours with all life.
We were given dominion over the earth, what we do with it is to our benefit or shame.

Quote:
Was Noah wrong to save them...our neighbors?...what about the restoration of EDEN, and its multiples?...which God instructed us to make?
Eden is a termed used to denote a habitat, is is associate with innocence, as like a new born babe, innocent until the age of accountability, of which time becomes a god, meaning, the ability to govern self between two extremes, good and evil.

Restoration of innocence though in a physical body, is to become renewed in spirit, from a dead state to life, yet while we live in this habitat.

Quote:
Ah...that is the key to the kingdom of God...which is many parts removed.
The key? Rebirth!

Quote:
So this world can be made into Edens...and that I think is the best policy one can bring to the table...it is sound thinking, logical, and acceptable to all intelligent beings!

No, this world is not in a state of paradise (Eden) and can not be, because it is within the cast out state that we can only learn to acknowledge the existence of God and become reborn into the state of innocence, which is spiritual.


Quote:
Take care of the planet in a sinless way...and share.
Take care of the planet as instructed, and practice righteous living.


Quote:
Now that cuts the throat of the sinners who live off the taxed hand doing nothing but making more sin!
Those you will always have, but it is up to some to live and do right as examples of what it should be, demonstrating to them that there is a God of love.

Realize it, that good can not manifest itself in an all good environment, but in an evil environment only. (Hence the state we're now in)

Kick it out of our houses, our lives, and our minds...and by doing the right thing...Tending and keeping the garden....we take care of the heritage of the world for future generations to come.

Quote:
That makes perfect sense!

Money now lies...as to its true value....it is always changing...and yet it says on it it is worth X amount...when it is not intirely true!

See all lies come from the liar $atan!
We are deceived if we think that we do not have the responsibility to control how we spend our $atan (Money) that we have to blame it on Satan!

A gun kills no one, yet the one who pulls the trigger can.

Satan is the adversary, without Him, we could see to do no good.

So, look at it, analyze it, and seek God's help in overcoming it daily.

Blessings, AJ
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Old 02-16-2020, 08:26 AM
 
Location: Southwestern, USA, now.
21,020 posts, read 19,372,767 times
Reputation: 23666
Quote:
Originally Posted by Greatest I am View Post
Does this kill the concept of original sin and the sacrifice of Jesus?

Does it also kill the idea that sin is passed down to the children and say that if Adam and Eve lost eternal life, that lose is not passed on to their children.

"The son shall not suffer for the iniquity of the father, nor the father suffer for the iniquity of the son; the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon himself, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon himself." (Ezekiel 18:20)
This quote seems to clearly say that we are all responsible for our sins and that none of that responsibility can be taken away and remains our own.
It also indicates that no sin, or original sin, is passed on to our children.
This seems a just way to go.
Why baptism then?

“and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon himself."

This does not indicate that Jesus can take sin upon himself.
It does say that each of us must carry that load, not a scapegoat Jesus.
If so, then there is no sacrifice on the cross for Jesus and ---why have you forsaken me ----- is answered with, it is not your place or moral to take responsibilities away from those who must carry their own loads.

Does the above change your views of the vicarious redemption of Jesus or original sin?

Regards
DL
No, since I already knew this!! Sorry you're not a member. A similar thread is going on right now.

However, those early people were SO stuck in their beliefs; one being that blood sacrifice of
a living creature offered up to appease God itself was an atonement...
that out of sheer compassion

Jesus came for these idiots stuck in their beliefs to free them from their nonsense ...(as if God wanted to kill a goat for atonement or His Son!) *eyeroll*
Primitive superstitious minds will do what they do...and need to be saved from their own ignorant beliefs.
Thank you, Jesus.
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