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Is it possible to debate Christianity without the use of its sacred book? The reason I ask that question, and mind you this is just my opinion, isI believe that because Christianity's sacred book was written by Man, every story within that sacred book was written by someone and that story is that individuals opinion as to what events happened and as we all know everybody has an opinion, so I cannot see how using the Christian sacred book could be a legitimate reason for debating Christianity. I have often said that, Christianity is man-made and cultural-based, it naturally has some of the rules and taboos of that particular culture built into it. Unfortunately for some, many cultures have chosen to use the Fear of God to enforce the man-made rules of that culture. So let's see if Christianity can be debated without the use of its sacred book.
Your belief doesn't make it fact. I believe God-chosen-men wrote down the Scripture, but God is the author.
You could try the Ante-Nicene Fathers. That means the Christian writers that predate the Council of Nicaea. Many of them use the Bible to some degree, but many of them also discuss philosophy or even a primitive kind of "comparative religion."
Here are some of the more orthodox names of that group.
Athenagoras
Ignatius of Antioch
Irenaeus
Justin Martyr
Polycarp
Here are some that were or became more heterodox, but still have some respectability.
Arnobius
Origen
Tertullian
The Catholic Encyclopedia has their writings on file as well as others who died before Nicaea. If you object to going to the Catholic Encyclopedia possibly those names are on gutenberg.
Your belief doesn't make it fact. I believe God-chosen-men wrote down the Scripture, but God is the author.
you know I find it interesting how you just seem to pick just a few words from a statement to base your statement on. If you go back and read you will note that I said that it is just my opinion that I believe,I did not say it was my belief and since I am not a Christian I do not believe in your sacred book as you do, it is a good story, based on many different stories that have morals and teaches how to be a good person, but that does not necessarily mean that it was written by your Christian God and if you go back and look at the history of your sacred book you will find that that is true, therefore because it is many different stories, it has many different opinions as to what the events were that were happening at that particular time.
You know what I find interesting, is that one of the sites that you posted lists a bunch of authors, such as, Lucretius,Pliny, Plato, Demosthenes, Herodotus,Suetonius,Thucydides, Euripides,Aristophanes, Caesar,Livy,Tacitus, Aristotle,Sophocles, and Homer, and then goes on to list the New Testament among these authors, however it doesn't mention the names of any of the authors of the New Testament. Then it goes on to say: [If the critics of the Bible dismisses the New Testament as reliable information, then they may also dismiss the reliability of the writings of Plato, Aristotle, Caesar, Homer, and the other authors mentioned in the chart at the beginning of the paper. On the other hand, if the critics acknowledge the historicity and writings of those other individuals and they must also retain the historicity and writings of the New Testament authors; after all, the evidence with the New Testament's reliability is far greater than the others. The Christian has substantially superior criteria for affirming the New Testament documents and he does for any other ancient writing it is good evidence on which to base the trust in the reliability of the New Testament.]
I have a problem with that statement since none of the authors of the New Testament are listed among the others, how do we know how reliable and truthful the authors of the New Testament were? And the authors that were listed were not writing sacred texts nor did they ever claim to be and their writings were long before the New Testament, so the statement has no validity.
Ptsum,The bible (book of many books) is not considered "sacred" to me..There are some of us believers/Christians who believe the books were not written from anyone's hand that was writing what God was speaking..Personally I believe that if the Bible was the written words spoken by God that there would not be any confusion or debating about it..There would be no need for some people to declare that "my interpretation is better than yours" I believe God did preserve and keep some things in the books only as a guide to faith/belief, but God is not contained between the covers of the bible..
I believe God is in all of us and we are free to accept and seek his presence or we can deny His presence, but He never leaves us..
I am truthful in saying that I am a Christian/believer because my family for generations have been Christian..What we live with and are taught in early childhood sticks with us into adulthood for many people..
Jesus was taught to me, sung to me and preached to me and He became a part of me..However as I matured and began to study other religions and observe the customs and cultures from around the world, I came to the conclusion that we worship one God, the creator, and there are many paths in this life that we each walk..If we are believers in a creator and respect each ones relationship with Him and treat our brothers and sisters (for I believe we are all His children] with kindness, and respect and replenish this world that is our temporary home for the next generation then our paths will eventually all end up before the Creator..
When I decided to seek God outside of mans religions I found the peace and joy in my faith that I had longed for and all the anger, and the guilt that man's religion had burdened me with disappeared from my life..
To answer the question is it possible to debate Christianity without the use of the book? Not here that is for sure..But then I have no reason to debate Christianity or any of my beliefs or anyones..
As they say "been there, done that" and the scars are healed and I want them to stay healed.
Miss Blue,your statement here is probably one of the most sensible ones I have seen so far.Even though I am not a Christian, I can understand the reasoning behind your statement here and I believe that you are not the only Christian that feels that way,there are probably many more who go about their lives and believe the same way that you do and in my opinion,and mind you it's only my opinion,this is the way a religion or a belief should be.If there were more Christians like you,I believe this world would be a better place.
Well Terry, you are pretty much onto something here. Let's keep in mind a few key points that today's church completely ignores, and thereby gets way off base.
#1: The Messiah NEVER came with the intent that a religion would be build around HIM, but rather gave ALL praise honor and glory to the Father YHVH. HE always followed and upheld every word from the original Torah. Too bad the ruling party of the Jewish Rabbinate at the time (the Pharisee's and Sadducees) didn't and chose to add to the Torah, which is why Messiah Yahshua was constantly at odds with them. They had attempted to rewrite the Torah so to speak.
#2: The Messiah AND all of HIS Talmadim (apostles) followed ALL of the Moadim (the Appointment Times of YHVH or the Holy days) which the Jews of their day observed as well. They NEVER failed to do so and NEVER did away with ANY of them. chrisianity, via the Church of Rome and pagan Emperor Constantine DID just that! They forbade christians from following ANYTHING that the Jews did, hence those things that Messiah AND HIS Talmadim did, so what the heck kind of religion is that?
#3: For those that never read the detailed accounts and Canon's listed in the Council of Nicea and Council of Leodicea, they had better get with it. Those accounts are by far the most antisemetic of all that ever came down the pike, not to mention they literally "Raped" the entire original intent and following of the Messiah literally chapter and verse. What they left behind was a paganized religion ruled by men, with doctrine written and enforced by men, and this remains today, a complete pollution and far cry of the original faith and following of the Messiah and the words HE spoke and taught from. HE and HIS Talmadim taught from the Torah pure and simple with NO man added junk. NOT the new testament.
#4: Here's the most difficult thing for christians to swallow. They think THEY have replaced Israel as the Chosen of YHVH. Got a news flash for them. It NEVER happened and it NEVER will. As it has already been abundantly stated in scripture, you are either native born or grafted into the commonwealth of Israel or you are NOT a part of the covenant with YHVH, and you will NOT be going through one of those 12 gates named for the Tribes of Israel stated in Revelation 22. I could go on till the cows come home, but I'll leave it at this.
Do I think you hard core christians and dispensationalists out there will swallow this? Nope...and that's YOUR loss. You'll prefer to keep on being deceived by the drivel of the RCC and the Protestant derivatives. How sad indeed....
Bottom Line: The person known to us as Jesus Christ...was...is...and will always be...A JEW. Any Christian separating themselves from the Jewish people is separating themselves from Christ, and thus His Father. That's what HE was purported to have said about it, anyway.
you know I find it interesting how you just seem to pick just a few words from a statement to base your statement on. If you go back and read you will note that I said that it is just my opinion that I believe,I did not say it was my belief and since I am not a Christian I do not believe in your sacred book as you do, it is a good story, based on many different stories that have morals and teaches how to be a good person, but that does not necessarily mean that it was written by your Christian God and if you go back and look at the history of your sacred book you will find that that is true, therefore because it is many different stories, it has many different opinions as to what the events were that were happening at that particular time.
Now you're saying history teaches us God did not author Scripture? Isn't it possible that if God is what Christians believe He is, He could have directed men to write exactly what He wanted? And couldn't He have directed men to add/delete certain books, etc.?
Now you're saying history teaches us God did not author Scripture? Isn't it possible that if God is what Christians believe He is, He could have directed men to write exactly what He wanted? And couldn't He have directed men to add/delete certain books, etc.?
Read what I am about to say very carefully, where in your sacred book does your Christian God say that he authored it? Your Christian God did not author anything, it is merely somebody else's opinion as to what they think should be written, those individuals are the authors of your sacred book and as such are subject to their interpretation of the events that happened at that particular time. Does not make it true.
Read what I am about to say very carefully, where in your sacred book does your Christian God say that he authored it? Your Christian God did not author anything, it is merely somebody else's opinion as to what they think should be written, those individuals are the authors of your sacred book and as such are subject to their interpretation of the events that happened at that particular time. Does not make it true.
We're back to the fundamentals...one side believes the book to be factual and truth while the other side doesn't believe it.
I completely agree with your side but you're just wasting your breath (err typing lol) here because them trying to tell you the book is factual comes across the same way as us telling them its fiction.
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