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Location: northern Vermont - previously NM, WA, & MA
10,725 posts, read 23,665,192 times
Reputation: 14561
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Visvaldis
God's love is conditional.
Next, try to find a christian that can tell the difference between a choice and an ultimatum.
conditional within the limited confines of your own philosphy. Of course your mantras of nothing is sacred and wishing to be elsewhere is a clear reflection of your limitations. So you have walked in the shoes of a homosexual? I suppose you could elaborate on how homosexuality is a "choice".....
Last edited by Champ le monstre du lac; 05-15-2010 at 07:06 PM..
Location: northern Vermont - previously NM, WA, & MA
10,725 posts, read 23,665,192 times
Reputation: 14561
Quote:
Originally Posted by Greatest I am
Who is your God. Tell me more.
Regards
DL
I see him as a universal being of light. A profound energy unseen to the human eye. He is glorious! I call on him for wisdom and strength. I don't surround him with one religion or profit. I could walk into an evengelical church and walk away with wisdom just as much as I could go to a Budhist temple, or a Native American spiritual ceremony, and realize we are all connected. I will likely disagree with some of the practices in all but that is only human. Humans are imperfect and we all live with paradoxes. With some it gets to the point where they are clouded with their own dissatisfaction in life which makes it easy to point out a scapegoat and make judgements to blame others for ones own inner conflict. Of course I can be vulnerable to that at times, we all are (although many won't admit to it). But in those moments I call on God for forgiveness and redemption which gives me strength.
Last edited by Champ le monstre du lac; 05-15-2010 at 07:15 PM..
It's definitely conditional and predicated on men taking a knife and mutilating their penises, not to mention if you don't love god, he doesn't love you back.
Location: northern Vermont - previously NM, WA, & MA
10,725 posts, read 23,665,192 times
Reputation: 14561
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mircea
It's definitely conditional and predicated on men taking a knife and mutilating their penises, not to mention if you don't love god, he doesn't love you back.
I do happen to know the Bible but before throwing contradictory quotes at each other, I want to know if we can reason together.
Do you believe in the fantasy parts of the Bible?
Talking animals, staffs that turn into snakes, water walkers and all the other instances where nature and physics is breached.
Can and does your God break the rules of nature and physics that you and I must live under?
Regards
DL
God is to be feared because of His great works...His wisdom is unsearchable in them (His works).
...At this also my heart trembleth, and is moved out of His place. Hear attentively the noise of His voice, and the sound that goeth out of His mouth. He directeth it under the whole heaven, and His lightning unto the ends of the earth. After it a voice roareth: He thundereth with the voice of his excellance, and He will not stay them when His voice is heard. God thundereth marvellously with his voice: great things doth He, which we cannot comprehend. For He saith to the snow, Be thou on the earth: likewise to the small rain, and to the great rain of his strength. He sealed up the hand of every man; that all men may know His work. Then the beasts go into dens: and remain in their places. Out of the South commeth the whirlwinds: and cold out of the North. By the breath of God, frost is given: and the breath of the waters is straightened. Also by watering he wearieth the thick cloud: He scattereth his bright cloud. And it is turned around by His counsel: that they may do whatsoever He commandeth them upon the face of the world in the earth. He causeth it to come, whether for correction. or for His land, or for mercy. Hearken unto this, O Job: stand still, and consider the wonderous works of God. Does thou know the ballancings of the clouds, the wonderous works of Him which is perfect in knowledge? How thy garments are warm, when He quieteth the earth by the South wind? Hast thou with Him spread out the sky, which is strong, and as a molten looking glass? Teach us what we shall say unto Him; for we cannot order our speech by reason of darkness. Shall it be told Him that I speak? if a man speak, surley He shall be swallowed up. And now men see not the bright light which is in the clouds: but the wind passeth and cleanseth them. Fair weather commeth out of the North: with God is terrible majesty. Touching the Almighty, we can not find him out: he is excellant in power, and in judgement, and in plenty of justice: he will not afflict. Men do therefore fear him: He respecteth not any that are wise of heart.
God challenges Job to answer...by His mighty works , He convinces Job of ignorance, and of imbecillity...
Then the LORD answered Job out of the whirlwind, and said, Who is this that darkeneth counsel by words without knowledge? Gird up thy loins like a man; for I will demand of thee, and answer thou Me...
Where was thou when I layed the foundations of the earth? declare if thou hast understanding. Who hath layed the measures thereof, if thou knowest? or who hath stretched the line upon it? Whereupon are the foundations thereof fastened? or who layed the corner stone thereof? When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy. Or who shut up the sea with doors, when it brake forth as if it had issued out of the womb? When I made the cloud the garment thereof, and thick darkness a swadling band for it, And brake up for it My decreed place, and set bars and doors, And said, Hitherto shalt thou come, but no further: and here shall thy proud waves be stayed. Hast thou commanded the morning since thy days? and caused the dayspring to know it's place. That it might take hold of the ends of the earth, that the wicked might be shaken out of it?...Who hath put wisdom in the inward parts? or Who hath given understanding to the heart?...
Job 37,38.
"Greatest I am"...there IS ONE who is far GREATER than thee...and He IS GOD ALMIGHTY....maker of heaven and earth...and there is nothing made that is made, that is made not by His hands.
Can we reason...? Probably not...because I cannot be persuaded, nor can I be dissuaded with reasons that would be an attempt to try to sway me into believing any other way than the way I believe now...your intellectual facts or logic will not affect the sound conclusions I hold in my heart that are rooted in the evidence of His love...His great mercy and His grace upon my life...I am assured as I am confident that my God is able to perform any thing He wills...His word will not return void...and...
...concerning when you said:
"...Talking animals, staffs that turn into snakes, water walkers and all the other instances where nature and physics is breached..." as you call this fantasy...?!
...I would only say this...to that...those things are only amongst the "Least" of the works God is capable of....those things are nothing compared to ALL of creation that the Creator has created.
In Christ's love...and in His truth,
Verna.
His love IS conditional. It is written.
Last edited by Verna Perry; 05-15-2010 at 09:45 PM..
Location: northern Vermont - previously NM, WA, & MA
10,725 posts, read 23,665,192 times
Reputation: 14561
Quote:
Originally Posted by Verna Perry
God is to be feared because of His great works...His wisdom is unsearchable in them (His works).
...At this also my heart trembleth, and is moved out of His place. Hear attentively the noise of His voice, and the sound that goeth out of His mouth. He directeth it under the whole heaven, and His lightning unto the ends of the earth. After it a voice roareth: He thundereth with the voice of his excellance, and He will not stay them when His voice is heard. God thundereth marvellously with his voice: great things doth He, which we cannot comprehend. For He saith to the snow, Be thou on the earth: likewise to the small rain, and to the great rain of his strength. He sealed up the hand of every man; that all men may know His work. Then the beasts go into dens: and remain in their places. Out of the South commeth the whirlwinds: and cold out of the North. By the breath of God, frost is given: and the breath of the waters is straightened. Also by watering he wearieth the thick cloud: He scattereth his bright cloud. And it is turned around by His counsel: that they may do whatsoever He commandeth them upon the face of the world in the earth. He causeth it to come, whether for correction. or for His land, or for mercy. Hearken unto this, O Job: stand still, and consider the wonderous works of God. Does thou know the ballancings of the clouds, the wonderous works of Him which is perfect in knowledge? How thy garments are warm, when He quieteth the earth by the South wind? Hast thou with Him spread out the sky, which is strong, and as a molten looking glass? Teach us what we shall say unto Him; for we cannot order our speech by reason of darkness. Shall it be told Him that I speak? if a man speak, surley He shall be swallowed up. And now men see not the bright light which is in the clouds: but the wind passeth and cleanseth them. Fair weather commeth out of the North: with God is terrible majesty. Touching the Almighty, we can not find him out: he is excellant in power, and in judgement, and in plenty of justice: he will not afflict. Men do therefore fear him: He respecteth not any that are wise of heart.
God challenges Job to answer...by His mighty works , He convinces Job of ignorance, and of imbecillity...
Then the LORD answered Job out of the whirlwind, and said, Who is this that darkeneth counsel by words without knowledge? Gird up thy loins like a man; for I will demand of thee, and answer thou Me...
Where was thou when I layed the foundations of the earth? declare if thou hast understanding. Who hath layed the measures thereof, if thou knowest? or who hath stretched the line upon it? Whereupon are the foundations thereof fastened? or who layed the corner stone thereof? When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy. Or who shut up the sea with doors, when it brake forth as if it had issued out of the womb? When I made the cloud the garment thereof, and thick darkness a swadling band for it, And brake up for it My decreed place, and set bars and doors, And said, Hitherto shalt thou come, but no further: and here shall thy proud waves be stayed. Hast thou commanded the morning since thy days? and caused the dayspring to know it's place. That it might take hold of the ends of the earth, that the wicked might be shaken out of it?...Who hath put wisdom in the inward parts? or Who hath given understanding to the heart?...
Job 37,38.
"Greatest I am"...there IS ONE who is far GREATER than thee...and He IS GOD ALMIGHTY....maker of heaven and earth...and there is nothing made that is made, that is made not by His hands.
Can we reason...? Probably not...because I cannot be persuaded, nor can I be dissuaded with reasons that would be an attempt to try to sway me into believing any other way than the way I believe now...your intellectual facts or logic will not affect the sound conclusions I hold in my heart that are rooted in the evidence of His love...His great mercy and His grace upon my life...I am assured as I am confident that my God is able to perform any thing He wills...His word will not return void...and...
...concerning when you said:
"...Talking animals, staffs that turn into snakes, water walkers and all the other instances where nature and physics is breached..." as you call this fantasy...?!
...I would only say this...to that...those things are only amongst the "Least" of the works God is capable of....those things are nothing compared to ALL of creation that the Creator has created.
In Christ's love...and in His truth,
Verna.
His love IS conditional. It is written.
Why don't you write some of your own material on what this means to you? You lost me right from the beginning with God is to be feared. You can not be the voice of authority by copying and pasting scripture and how it is the one and only true path. You only exclude far too many other good souls and alienate yourself within your own limitations. Fear, judgement, and delusional tales of hellfire are all unhealthy ways to be.
Why don't you write some of your own material on what this means to you? You lost me right from the beginning with God is to be feared. You can not be the voice of authority by copying and pasting scripture and how it is the one and only true path. You only exclude far too many other good souls and alienate yourself within your own limitations. Fear, judgement, and delusional tales of hellfire are all unhealthy ways to be.
My response is to Greatest I am, and I am sorry I lost you. I do not, and never have proclaimed that I am the voice of authority...and I did not copy and past...it took me over an hour to study and search what I wanted to say...and I typed every word of it...your problem is it comes straight from the word of God...you claim to be christian...yet you have no knowlege of Who He is...limitations...?...nope...no limitations...fear...?...yep...in God alone...judgement...?...I call it sound conclusions...and delusional..?...I think not...tales of hellfire...?...where is that exactly...?
Your problem is not with me caphillsea...it is with Him.
Location: northern Vermont - previously NM, WA, & MA
10,725 posts, read 23,665,192 times
Reputation: 14561
Quote:
Originally Posted by Verna Perry
My response is to Greatest I am, and I am sorry I lost you. I do not, and never have proclaimed that I am the voice of authority...and I did not copy and past...it took me over an hour to study and search what I wanted to say...and I typed every word of it...your problem is it comes straight from the word of God...you claim to be christian...yet you have no knowlege of Who He is...limitations...?...nope...no limitations...fear...?...yep...in God alone...judgement...?...I call it sound conclusions...and delusional..?...I think not...tales of hellfire...?...where is that exactly...?
Your problem is not with me caphillsea...it is with Him.
First of all, you are putting words in my mouth. I never claimed to be a christian because I am not. perhaps due to your own limited beliefs you may have assumed I was.
Second, I am quite confident in my relationship with God. He heals, restores, and gives me strength so don't you dare tell me I have a problem with god, and that is putting yourself in the voice of authority.
You seem to see my relationship with god as a paradox just because I don't buy into written scripture which I believe to be written by man and his own interpretations of god and very discriminating. I have a good diologue with god and I don't need your narrow interpretation to be validate my own beliefs. Fear and vengence does not equate to love and I can only interprate god as light and love and certainly not limited to the christian world. "The word" as you call it only fits into what suits you to what you believe is the one and only true path.
If I ask you: "is unknowable's love conditional or unconditional?" How would you answer it?
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