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Old 05-18-2010, 05:55 AM
 
1,838 posts, read 2,241,296 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Konraden View Post
So we have two eternal elements? God and the Universe? If the universe is eternal, why do we have God?



First you say that energy is eternal. If it is eternal, it has no beginning and no end, correct? Why do we have God? There is no evidence and no reason to support that God is in control of energy.



Energy is the material cosmos. Energy is part of nature--we under stand it's properties, it's physical--it's material.



This is an entirely unsubstantiated claim! If the universe is eternal, we have no need of God!
you miss-read my post-what i said was that the ENERGY used to create the universe is eternal,the material energy.....,but the manifestation is only temporary,God creates ,maintains and destroy's these universes-they are temporary just like everything in them,even our own sun.
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Old 05-18-2010, 07:48 AM
Status: "Without God, life is tragic and absurd." (set 22 days ago)
 
Location: Free State of Texas
20,356 posts, read 12,631,406 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vanburen81 View Post

Yes, Jesus clearly respected Scripture. But He did not write it himself and gave no indication that he approved or even knew that a group of books called the Bible would be written about Him. At least, if he did, it's not in the Bible. If the Bible is supposed to be the ONLY source for coming to know God then maybe He would have done what Mohammed claims God did and have his Prophet transcribe it word for word. But God did not do that. I do believe the Bible was inspired by God and is completely accurate (though its not to be read like a history book), but it was written by men and is not the only way to come to know him.
Empty argument. All Scripture is God-breathed. The original language used was the word theopneustos, which means "breathed out by God".

What other source can be used to know God, & what other information can we gain?
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Old 05-18-2010, 07:54 AM
 
2,884 posts, read 5,910,146 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmiej View Post
Empty argument. All Scripture is God-breathed. The original language used was the word theopneustos, which means "breathed out by God".

What other source can be used to know God, & what other information can we gain?

What does it mean when the creations of the supposed god weigh heavily against the very existence or nature of the supposed god?
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Old 05-18-2010, 09:04 AM
 
Location: New Orleans
128 posts, read 296,742 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmiej View Post
Empty argument. All Scripture is God-breathed. The original language used was the word theopneustos, which means "breathed out by God".

What other source can be used to know God, & what other information can we gain?
The original language used for what was theopneustos? Anyway, as I said, I think the Bible was inspired by God. But I don't remember anything in the Bible saying it is the ONLY thing inspired by God or the only source for coming to know God.

Other sources of coming to know/ experience God I'd say include baptism, the eucharist, prayer, direct revelation, religious music, religious art...
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Old 05-18-2010, 10:03 AM
Status: "Without God, life is tragic and absurd." (set 22 days ago)
 
Location: Free State of Texas
20,356 posts, read 12,631,406 times
Reputation: 2469
Quote:
Originally Posted by vanburen81 View Post
The original language used for what was theopneustos? Anyway, as I said, I think the Bible was inspired by God. But I don't remember anything in the Bible saying it is the ONLY thing inspired by God or the only source for coming to know God.

Other sources of coming to know/ experience God I'd say include baptism, the eucharist, prayer, direct revelation, religious music, religious art...
All of which are in the Bible. Further, none of these things give us any new information.

theopneustos-Greek for God-breathed.
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Old 05-18-2010, 12:35 PM
 
1,838 posts, read 2,241,296 times
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jimmie j ---are you saying that the bible is the only source of information on God?...thats like me saying that Ireland is the only country that rain's,

the timeless veda's have a hell of alot of info',first of all there are 30 volumes of the Shrimad Bhagavatam-there are the 4 veda's themselves,their is the Mahabharata,(3 times the size of the bible)which contains the Bhagavad Gita(must read,their has been more commenteries on this book than any other book in the world),the Brahma samhita,their are all the Purana's such as the 18 prominent mahapurana's,the upanishad's which are 108 seperate book's,the Ramayana,and many more including the teaching's of Lord Chaitanya............now if you are saying that the bible is the ONLY source of transcendental knowledge,which i think the bible itself even falls short of,then i think you need to seek further,

it would take you a very long time to go through all these divisions of scripture,however the Bhagavad Gita is the jewel,spoken bye Krishna Himself 5000 years ago to His devotee and freind it is the knowledge of self realization/God consioussness.
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Old 05-18-2010, 01:17 PM
 
Location: Elsewhere
87,948 posts, read 83,734,558 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmiej View Post
Empty argument. All Scripture is God-breathed. The original language used was the word theopneustos, which means "breathed out by God".

What other source can be used to know God, & what other information can we gain?
Prayer. Then listening for the answer.

Abraham didn't have a book, now did he?
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Old 05-18-2010, 01:29 PM
 
Location: Elsewhere
87,948 posts, read 83,734,558 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vanburen81 View Post
The original language used for what was theopneustos? Anyway, as I said, I think the Bible was inspired by God. But I don't remember anything in the Bible saying it is the ONLY thing inspired by God or the only source for coming to know God.

Other sources of coming to know/ experience God I'd say include baptism, the eucharist, prayer, direct revelation, religious music, religious art...
It's a passage from the book of Timothy, which is translated to "All scripture is God-inspired..." but the actual Greek word used means "God-breathed."

Paul wrote the letter to Timothy, so it was apparently his own belief that he was stating. Of course, it makes you wonder if at the time if he had any way of knowing that his own letter would someday be defined as scripture and therefore quoted and applied to other scripture.

I am not being anti-bible. I am just not comfortable with worship of the bible and the original statement that set off this conversation that equates the bible with Christianity itself.
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Old 05-18-2010, 01:40 PM
 
Location: Colorado Springs, CO
3,331 posts, read 5,932,989 times
Reputation: 2082
Paul is very troublesome at best.

First, only Romans, 1 & 2 Corinthians, Galatians, Philippians, 1 Thessalonians, and Philemon can be directly attributed to him.

Second, what made them to be canon? Being letters to churches in different parts of the Empire, wouldn't his be akin to Pat Robertson writing some letters? Certainly Christians don't take his writings as canon!

Third, other than Paul declaring himself apostle to the gentiles, by what authority does he speak? Yes, we all know of his claims while on the road to Damascus, but other than that, what is there? Religious people claim all sorts of things, yet do we form the basis of faith around it? How do we know that any of what he said happened at all?

I can't help but think that what Jesus intended transformed into the "Cult of Paul".

Last edited by Fullback32; 05-18-2010 at 01:50 PM..
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Old 05-18-2010, 03:03 PM
 
Location: Elsewhere
87,948 posts, read 83,734,558 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fullback32 View Post
Paul is very troublesome at best.

First, only Romans, 1 & 2 Corinthians, Galatians, Philippians, 1 Thessalonians, and Philemon can be directly attributed to him.

Second, what made them to be canon? Being letters to churches in different parts of the Empire, wouldn't his be akin to Pat Robertson writing some letters? Certainly Christians don't take his writings as canon!

Third, other than Paul declaring himself apostle to the gentiles, by what authority does he speak? Yes, we all know of his claims while on the road to Damascus, but other than that, what is there? Religious people claim all sorts of things, yet do we form the basis of faith around it? How do we know that any of what he said happened at all?

I can't help but think that what Jesus intended transformed into the "Cult of Paul".
I agree. Much of what is now accepted as church doctrine and truth comes from Paul's epistles, and is much more complicated than what Jesus had to say.
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