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Old 05-14-2010, 11:22 PM
 
Location: North Central Ohio, to be exact :)
360 posts, read 443,071 times
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I've heard many a debater propose how foolish all these darn "Christian beliefs" we share; that we all believe in hell, in Young Earth, that every story in the Bible is literal.

I just want to clarify this for those who believe that all Christians share the same beliefs, or refuse to for whatever reason . The truth is, the only belief all Christians really share is that Jesus Christ is their savior. Trust me, we'e not all Young Earth theorists. We don't all go out and yell that everyone will be consumed by the fires of hell if they don't repent immediately.

What does that mean for those who like to generalize us? Well, thing is, you can't. Please, if you have a problem with a specific denomination, just specify it, for goodness sake; there's 30,000+, and not one is alike.

Moderator cut: Deleted -- Does not comply to the TOS or the Stickies

Last edited by june 7th; 05-15-2010 at 02:21 PM..
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Old 05-15-2010, 12:35 AM
 
Location: Salt Lake City
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I'm with you, Ohioan Kid. I'd add something to what you said, but you really said it all.
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Old 05-15-2010, 12:44 AM
 
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Do all Christians accept that a man named Jesus was killed and three days later walked out of a tomb? Do they believe he actually healed a blind man? Do they believe he turned water into wine? Do they think Jesus was a virgin birth?
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Old 05-15-2010, 12:49 AM
 
Location: Salt Lake City
27,854 posts, read 29,658,564 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Konraden View Post
Do all Christians accept that a man named Jesus was killed and three days later walked out of a tomb? Do they believe he actually healed a blind man? Do they believe he turned water into wine? Do they think Jesus was a virgin birth?
I think it would be safe to say that we have that much in common. But, just as an example of what Ohioan Kid was saying, some Christians will tell you that Jesus' mother, Mary, remained a virgin throughout her life. Others will tell you that she was a virgin only up until after she gave birth to her Son. Since our beliefs on so many things are so varied, it would really be nice not to be told you believe something you really don't believe.
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Old 05-15-2010, 12:52 AM
 
3,614 posts, read 3,488,144 times
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Originally Posted by Katzpur View Post
I think it would be safe to say that we have that much in common. But, just as an example of what Ohioan Kid was saying, some Christians will tell you that Jesus' mother, Mary, remained a virgin throughout her life. Others will tell you that she was a virgin only up until after she gave birth to her Son. Since our beliefs on so many things are so varied, it would really be nice not to be told you believe something you really don't believe.
Some of those fundamental beliefs are patently absurd.

For those that like Jesus' teachings, Jefferson was already on the up-and-up.
Amazon.com: The Jefferson Bible (0046442077149): Thomas Jefferson, Forrest Church: Books

Christians take Jesus as more than just "wise teacher." The supernatural elements are undoubtedly widespread through all Christians--and those beliefs are patently absurd.
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Old 05-15-2010, 01:08 AM
 
Location: Salt Lake City
27,854 posts, read 29,658,564 times
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Originally Posted by Konraden View Post
Christians take Jesus as more than just "wise teacher." The supernatural elements are undoubtedly widespread through all Christians--and those beliefs are patently absurd.
Okay, well that's not only just a matter of opinion, Moderator cut: deleted I respect your right to anti-Christian beliefs, but at least try to stick to the topic -- which is that all Christians do not believe alike on all matters of doctrine and it would be nice if people would not paint us all with the same brush.

Last edited by june 7th; 05-16-2010 at 03:17 PM..
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Old 05-15-2010, 01:18 AM
 
3,614 posts, read 3,488,144 times
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Originally Posted by Katzpur View Post
Okay, well that's not only just a matter of opinion, it's also not really what the OP is about. I respect your right to anti-Christian beliefs, but at least try to stick to the topic -- which is that all Christians do not believe alike on all matters of doctrine and it would be nice if people would not paint us all with the same brush.
Would you be willing to say that all Christians accept that Jesus was crucified, killed, and then was resurrected three days after death to walk on the land again?

Would you be willing to say that Jesus performed other miracles, such as feeding several thousand people with little food, or healed the physically blind, specifically through supernatural means?

These claims are absurd. That isn't opinion.

Like I said, if people love Jesus that much--reject the silly-nanny supernaturalism and pick up Jefferson's book.
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Old 05-15-2010, 01:31 AM
 
Location: Salt Lake City
27,854 posts, read 29,658,564 times
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Originally Posted by Konraden View Post
Moderator cut: Orphaned
They're absurd to you. They're not absurd to me. I guess that's because I can accept the fact that there are some things which cannot be proven by science but which are, nevertheless, true. I believe in something bigger than myself. You apparently don't.

Look, I don't care what you think of my beliefs, and I don't mind in the slightest that you don't believe like I do. I really don't. I'm not here to shove my faith down your throat. Moderator cut: deleted

Now how about some reciprocal respect. Live and let live. If I believe in something really stupid, really absurd, it really isn't hurting you at all, now is it?

Last edited by june 7th; 05-16-2010 at 03:16 PM..
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Old 05-15-2010, 01:43 AM
 
3,614 posts, read 3,488,144 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Katzpur View Post
They're absurd to you. They're not absurd to me. Look, I don't care what you think of my beliefs, and I don't mind in the slightest that you don't believe like I do. I really don't. I'm not here to shove my faith down your throat. Now how about some reciprocal respect.
Absurd:
  • inconsistent with reason or logic or common sense; "the absurd predicament of seeming to argue that virtue is highly desirable but intensely ...
  • a situation in which life seems irrational and meaningless; "The absurd is the essential concept and the first truth"--Albert Camus
  • incongruous;inviting ridicule; "the absurd excuse that the dog ate his homework"; "that's a cockeyed idea"; "ask a nonsensical question and get a nonsensical answer"; "a contribution so small as to be laughable"; "it is ludicrous to call a cottage a mansion"; "a preposterous attempt to turn back ...
Moving on.

A person coming back from the dead after three days is absurd because it is medically and physically impossible.

A person feeding 4000 people with seven loaves of bread is patently absurd. The loaves would have been of ridiculous proportions to do so.

The healing of the blind through supernatural means is again absurd. The physical deformities that cause blindness cannot be hand-waved away.

Explanations that are specifically not supernatural exist for these claims--yet are rejected by (most) Christians. Those Christians that do accept natural explanations (God is not a natural explanation) for these occurrences are few and far between--and not the subject of my ridicule or likely that of others.

This isn't about you personally, so do not take it as such. These are about the beliefs you hold and the claims you make. Think of it as a "hate the sin, not the sinner" kind of mind-set.
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Old 05-15-2010, 02:09 AM
 
Location: 30-40°N 90-100°W
13,809 posts, read 26,440,660 times
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Originally Posted by Konraden View Post
Moderator cut: Orphaned
A belief in supernatural events is fairly universal across cultures, including cultures that do not have a belief in God as such. Saying that the supernatural is "patently absurd" is a very modern notion, one that not everyone is going to accept. For that matter it's one that not every atheist even accepts. Britain is full of people who believe in ghosts, but not God and Iceland reportedly has many who believe in elves but not God.

So you're essentially saying your subset of a group (non-theists) which is itself a narrow subset of people gets to say what's absurd or not. Worse that your personally view of what counts as absurd is absurd, rather than just your opinion of the absurd. And you guys wonder why people say atheists are arrogant?

Last edited by june 7th; 05-15-2010 at 02:27 PM..
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