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Old 05-25-2010, 12:19 PM
 
Location: Valencia, Spain
16,155 posts, read 12,858,876 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WestCobb View Post
This, and other purely speculative questions that are impossible to answer because they are not rooted in anything tangible or real in any objective, measurable way, have always puzzled me.
Yeah, know what you mean mate. I have the same problem regarding why people drive in the middle lane of a motorway when the inside lane is empty or, why does the gas bottle always run out when you are having a shower but not when you are washing the dishes. It's a mystery eh?
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Old 05-25-2010, 02:50 PM
 
Location: 30-40°N 90-100°W
13,809 posts, read 26,558,648 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AREQUIPA View Post
Nevertheless, the OP makes a valid point. Why do we spend so much time debating intricacies of a belief system?

The theist answer is...well, they'd better say why themselves. I suspect because it's all about proving which religion, denomination and subset of denomination is the right one, because getting into heaven or not may depend on wearing the right hat.
This is more done in Western Christianity, Judaism, and Islam. Eastern Christianity had no scholasticism as such and tended to just say that certain things are mysteries. Although outside Western religion Chinese philosophies sometimes had rather involved ideas on reality and debates concerning them.

Religions often tend to see themselves as true and having answers to questions. There are many questions that can be asked so a certain level of intricacy might develop over time. Also humans are themselves complicated so an oversimplified religion might not be sufficient for societal needs.

Granted there are simplification movements, but I think for many atheists the results of those movements would not look that great. For example Radical Islam is largely a simplification movement. I remember some in my life or on TV saying "why doesn't Islam have a Reformation", well Radical Islam in some ways is their analogy to the Reformation. (All such analogies are inexact though) One of its main intentions is to sweep away various pagan or semi-pagan traditions that accreted over the centuries and return to the "purity" of a focus on the Qur'an and validated teachings. So no more debating which Sufi saint did what, but instead bulldozing the memorials to Sufi saints and maybe bulldozing the Sufis themselves.

In Christianity Fundamentalism itself began as a simplification movement. It focused on certain "fundamental truths" of Christianity. It is much less violent than Radical Islam, but in some ways Fundamentalist Christianity is more anti-intellectual. Radical Islam felt it needed to "Answer the West" and its philosophical concerns as RI first arose in a period where Western Imperialism still had some bearing. So several Radical Muslims were highly educated or even went to places like Oxford. Fundamentalist Christianity was also a response to a threat in a way, but it was a threat among Christians (Religious modernism) rather than an external imperialism by a nation that seemed intellectually advanced of them.

Anyway intricacy and complication allow for study for a lifetime. For a simple creed, like atheism or Fundamentalist and Pentecostal Christianity, you get your intellectual stuff from other things. Granted if you deem religion a crock than using your intellect on it might seem a waste of time.
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Old 05-26-2010, 08:50 AM
 
Location: S. Wales.
50,088 posts, read 20,723,660 times
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Thank you. I think you might find some of Hinduism and Buddhism theology or techicality remarkably complicated, but there is certainly less dickering about right or wrong interpretations.

"For a simple creed, like atheism or Fundamentalist and Pentecostal Christianity, you get your intellectual stuff from other things. Granted if you deem religion a crock than using your intellect on it might seem a waste of time."

(Puts on pedants' hat) Atheism is not a creed, though it's simple enough.

If religion is a 'crock' then using intellect (other than as historical research) is indeed a waste of time. However, countering the arguments put forward as reasons to embrace the crock, is not.
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Old 05-26-2010, 02:00 PM
 
Location: Florida
5,493 posts, read 7,339,984 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WestCobb View Post
This, and other purely speculative questions that are impossible to answer because they are not rooted in anything tangible or real in any objective, measurable way, have always puzzled me.
Do angels dance?

If so, what kind of dance?

Jitter Bug?

The twist?

To me, that's the more important question.

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Old 05-26-2010, 04:39 PM
 
Location: 30-40°N 90-100°W
13,809 posts, read 26,558,648 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AREQUIPA View Post
(Puts on pedants' hat) Atheism is not a creed, though it's simple enough.
I was thinking "creed" could mean any idea or belief, but you're right it means a system. "Opinion" or "viewpoint" then.
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Old 05-26-2010, 06:19 PM
 
16,294 posts, read 28,531,593 times
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Every single angel that exists, every one of them, as in all.

Did I mention that angels are also imaginary.

For those that are spelling challenged, that would be 360 angles
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Old 05-27-2010, 09:30 AM
 
1,838 posts, read 2,249,925 times
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bye God I have got it!!!!eureeka,after all this deliberation and calculation its 108 dear watson lets have a celebration-im a poet and i didnt know it
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Old 05-27-2010, 10:25 AM
 
Location: S. Wales.
50,088 posts, read 20,723,660 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thomas R. View Post
I was thinking "creed" could mean any idea or belief, but you're right it means a system. "Opinion" or "viewpoint" then.
Takes off pedants' hat Ok with that.
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Old 05-27-2010, 10:26 AM
 
Location: S. Wales.
50,088 posts, read 20,723,660 times
Reputation: 5930
Quote:
Originally Posted by dobeable View Post
bye God I have got it!!!!eureeka,after all this deliberation and calculation its 108 dear watson lets have a celebration-im a poet and i didnt know it

Well, I can't dispove it so, according to the best theist thinking, you must be right.
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Old 05-27-2010, 10:40 AM
 
Location: Richardson, TX
8,734 posts, read 13,819,909 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oakback View Post
Do angels dance?

If so, what kind of dance?

Jitter Bug?

The twist?

To me, that's the more important question.

Not if they're Baptist.
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