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so you claim that reincarnation is just a fairy tale,have you got evidence that it dosent take place,if not then you are preaching,according to your logic
First you tell me that when we die we'll be able to look back on our past lives...I asked you to tell me a bit about what past lives you remember...You reply "I haven't a clue"
How does that work exactly? Do we only have that recall between death and when we are poofed into a new body? If that is the case then you have nothing to base your beliefs on, other than what you have been told by others....I think flying pink hippos are more likely.
By the way, the person making outrageous claims (I think yours qualifies) bears the burden of proof.
dobeable: OK, prove that the 'soul' actually exists. I fail to see how my stating that I think this life is all I have qualifies as "preachin", while your exposition of Christian dogmatism certainly does by any standard.
I prefer not to consider the life I have here as misery and suffering. Birth, life and death are the natural order of things, and I don't mind being a part of it. In fact, I find it inspiring. Basing one's life upon ancient myth which states that we are all living in a 'vale of tears' whose value is only in being cleansed by suffering so that we can be rewarded by an afterlife of endlessly praising God is hardly an attractive viewpoint for me.
The response:
Quote:
Originally Posted by dobeable
now where would you hear any christian talk about reincarnation-you are on a religion and philosophy forum,what do you expect us to talk about ...the weather~???????
you mentioneed christian dogmatism-i aint christian-if you dont like discussing spiritual topics,like the soul,then go to another forum,this ones for religion and philosophy
First you tell me that when we die we'll be able to look back on our past lives...I asked you to tell me a bit about what past lives you remember...You reply "I haven't a clue"
How does that work exactly? Do we only have that recall between death and when we are poofed into a new body? If that is the case then you have nothing to base your beliefs on, other than what you have been told by others....I think flying pink hippos are more likely.
By the way, the person making outrageous claims (I think yours qualifies) bears the burden of proof.
well you go for that flyin pink hippo's,
obviosly you dont understand anything about ghosts either then,a ghost is an unmanifested spirit,its manifested in spirit but not in matter...what proof are you lookin for BTW,why dont you just let it be and wait till you die,then you'll have all the proof you need
obviosly you dont understand anything about ghosts either then,a ghost is an unmanifested spirit,its manifested in spirit but not in matter...what proof are you lookin for BTW,why dont you just let it be and wait till you die,then you'll have all the proof you need
Ghosts are nothing more than myths...There will be no revelations when I die, none for you either....We will just cease to exist...All we are is an arrangement of atoms that will come apart at death and be incorporated into other things....There is no soul, spirit or ghosts, except in some folks imaginations....The same place I got this... http://pathwayssanctuary.org/flying_hippo.jpg
i didnt ask you to write on this thread,you did that on your own...erm,religion and philosophy-reincarnation and karma-
i thought we were havin a nice discussion guess i was just "preachin"to ya,oh well!!!
Now you are trying to score points with sarcasm. We are willing to discuss anything relevant, but just posting a lot of unsupported claims is not discussion, it's preaching. All the time you were were putting forward ideas that could be evaluated nobody mentioned 'preaching'.
so you claim that reincarnation is just a fairy tale,have you got evidence that it dosent take place,if not then you are preaching,according to your logic
Well, you saw my previous posts where you put forward the evidence for reincarnation. I considered it and pointed out that it didn't stack up. Therefore, your claim for reincarnation is not logically believable. And a fairy tale, as you say. To say that we ought not to believe something that has no good evidence is simply logical reasoning, not preaching.
Now, if you have any other arguments to make in favour of reincarnation, by all means make them, but just posting a lot of claims based on nothing but what you believe is a waste of our time and is, in fact, 'preaching'.
i hade to get back to this quote because i didnt read it properly first time,i just flew through it.,i didnt see you saying "you'r not tryin put me down",but the lecture on preaching?????
Now here, you are putting forward some arguments and I'm quite willing to consider them.
Quote:
as i said if one needs a brain to be consiouss,then wouldnt all those moving and non-moving entity's that have no brain,have no-consioussness,as i said they might have very little consioussness,but non at-all?????
Entities do have a brain. Rifleman is our Bio - expert but he'll probably concur that the lowest animals have brains though not much more than a bunch of grey cells that do little more than control the motor - nerve. As we go up the animal - line the brain gets bigger and the animals become more conscious. There is no mystery here. There is no reason to suppose that the brain/mind/consciousness is anything particular to humans, though it is more developed in us.
Quote:
second if a man is in a coma,how do we know that he is not aware of somethin-but your rioght if the brain gets messed up then the body will fail and the mind can too but only till that entity's departure...........,mind,intellegence and ego are subtle energys of the soul.they can exist without the body,the soul can exist without any of these as just pure spirit also it can merge into the Brahman,but that is identity suicide,i think we are happier with interpersonal relationships....but its only our condition to the body that causes the pain and suffering.
If a man in a coma is aware of something, or not, either is down to the workings of the brain. The brain and the workings of the body are inextricably linked. The body can get messed up, as you say, either by the body or the brain being damaged. Your speculations about the soul are just speculations.
Yes the brain and body produce pleasant and unpleasant sensations. Evolution explains all that. Alleviation of that - if one even wants to alleviate the pleasurable sensations (I don't) is a big subject.
Quote:
i guess you dont beleive in ghost's,well thats a pity cause that would prove it,i know that not everyone is talkin bull when they have experiences with ghost's,ive had 0one myself--give your human brother a bit more credit than that-their are things that science cant explain,science is only limited to the physical reality,as far as the spiritual reality goes, it is useless,
Ghosts would not neccessarily prove a soul because it is only an assumption that a disembodied soul is what a ghost is. Could it be an imprinted ultra - dimentional image? Another type of being, like gods or demons? Aliens from other worlds or dimensions? You see that explaining them as 'souls' is jumping to conclusions, even if they were proven to exist, which isn't proven, as yet.
The 'science doesn't know everything' is a pretty hoary ploy. If it doesn't, then religious speculation knows even less.
Look, mate, all that unknown to science stuff is certainly interesting but it is illogical to leap to conclusions about it before we know anything about it. And it aggravates us a bit to have the peddlers of religions trying to use it as a way of claiming that their unsupported speculations about matters of which they know nothing are anything more than unsupported speculations.
Now you are trying to score points with sarcasm. We are willing to discuss anything relevant, but just posting a lot of unsupported claims is not discussion, it's preaching. All the time you were were putting forward ideas that could be evaluated nobody mentioned 'preaching'.
you mentioned preachin spree on post 62#
if we were talking about the existence of ghosts,would you call it preachin,
if we were talkin about the existence of aliens-would you call it preachin,
so now we are talkin about the soul,and reincarnation,that neither of us can prove/dis-prove empiracally,so it is preaching,
and as i said according tom what you wrote in another post,because it cant be proven then i must be preaching-but how many here was saying that reincarnation isnt true,but they have no evidence to back up their claim,...so all i was tryin to say that in a way everyone is preaching here on CD,....how many atheist's put forward there opinions about God's non-existence,is there any proof He dosent exist,they must be all preaching.
Now here, you are putting forward some arguments and I'm quite willing to consider them.
Entities do have a brain. Rifleman is our Bio - expert but he'll probably concur that the lowest animals have brains though not much more than a bunch of grey cells that do little more than control the motor - nerve. As we go up the animal - line the brain gets bigger and the animals become more conscious. There is no mystery here. There is no reason to suppose that the brain/mind/consciousness is anything particular to humans, though it is more developed in us.
what about plants and tree's??
Quote:
Originally Posted by arequipa
If a man in a coma is aware of something, or not, either is down to the workings of the brain. The brain and the workings of the body are inextricably linked. The body can get messed up, as you say, either by the body or the brain being damaged. Your speculations about the soul are just speculations.
Yes the brain and body produce pleasant and unpleasant sensations. Evolution explains all that. Alleviation of that - if one even wants to alleviate the pleasurable sensations (I don't) is a big subject.
my speculations about the soul are not just speculations-all this knowledge was spoken 5000 years ago bye Krishna Himself,
i already think i had a discussion with you about mantra meditation,the proof of the pudding is in the eating-their is a difference between spiritual sound vibrations and material sounds.(one has a way of opening the heart chakra and realization of the soul becomes clear!!!
Quote:
Originally Posted by arequipa
Ghosts would not neccessarily prove a soul because it is only an assumption that a disembodied soul is what a ghost is. Could it be an imprinted ultra - dimentional image? Another type of being, like gods or demons? Aliens from other worlds or dimensions? You see that explaining them as 'souls' is jumping to conclusions, even if they were proven to exist, which isn't proven, as yet.
The 'science doesn't know everything' is a pretty hoary ploy. If it doesn't, then religious speculation knows even less.
Look, mate, all that unknown to science stuff is certainly interesting but it is illogical to leap to conclusions about it before we know anything about it. And it aggravates us a bit to have the peddlers of religions trying to use it as a way of claiming that their unsupported speculations about matters of which they know nothing are anything more than unsupported speculations.
whether a ghost is a ghost or somethin else,dosent really matter,but people have claimed to see and here old dead family members-sounds like a disembodied soul to me-ever hear of psychic sally-pretty nifty stuff,and its the simplest things that she picks up on.
as i said im not just leaping to some conclusion that i just made up in my head,this knowledge has been around for a long time and it makes perfect sense,God has set up a just and fair system while we exist on the material plane,whether we know abpout it or not,we are still effected bye it ,just like the child that is ignorant to the fire burning,if he/she puts their hand in they still get burned,so it is with karma everybody is effected and bound bye it..TWIB,anyway.
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