Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
I have just read a comment on an old thread that prompted me to realise that many people must feel the same way.
However, I cannot accept the idea that we are all subservient to God. Even the idea of 'We are Gods Children' is alien to me because I think this places one being above another.
I realise this is how our culture or civilisation currently works but in my opinion it is not a good model. There are always winners and losers, one who have and ones who have not. People who are in control of others. A competition model is not one for Heaven because this promotes inequality and disrespect.
Getting back to the original subject of this thread, anyone who believes he/she 'belongs' to God must consider themselves subservient to God and must consider God can do what he wants to with us. How very meek, mild and subservient that is. Very Christian, if you ask me.
In our society, children are generally controlled, directed, encouraged, punished, rewarded, 'educated' and other well-meaning activities but all of these infer control by the parents until the children are sufficiently 'grown up' enough to assume responsibility for themselves. Is this like God wants it?
Dont you think that it would be healthier to consider that we are all God-in-the-making and so one person/being is no lesser than another? (whether it is God or anyone else)
You actually raise a better point than perhaps you think, in my opinion. Most of the Gods depicted throughout history, and most especially the monotheistic ones of "The Big Three," often depict not just a controlling, 'owning' God but an omnipotent, narcissistic, and maniacal despot.
I can't believe anyone would grovel at the feet of a being that demands constant attention, strict adoration (and adulation), who requires that nothing bad be said about him, that he should not be questioned, or that we have no right to do such a thing. I refuse to worship a being that can literally convict me of thought crime, that will watch who I have sex with, how I have sex with them, what I do in my free time, or how I act and behave when I'm alone. I cannot bring myself to think that it's even a remotely common merit of decency of any being (omnipotent or not) to demand that I thank him for plentiful morsels of food at the dinner plate - while he lets more than half the world's population literally starve to death.
And then... After a lifetime of kissing the "benevolent" behind of the universal, omnipotent security camera, I'm supposed to die and go join him in bliss for eternity? And people ask me to believe that slobbering on the feet of such a monstrous entity is all that is required for me to go to this eternal bliss? How outrageously foolish and stupid does such an idea sound? Would I really trust the idea that something which required so much of my devotion and attention to feed his narcissistic and over-inflated ego would have such a place set aside for me? I think not.
Meanwhile, there is always Option B. I could blaspheme, not believe in such a gargantuan mockery of the human race, and then I could go direct to Hell where I will be tortured and eviscerated for eternity - without even a remote chance in Hell, literally, of ever reaching the point of eternal bliss.
Now, I say... Does North Korea not offer this same sense of "nobility" to their own people? Does the Dear Leader not offer the magnificent rewards of plentiful food and world domination after defeating the evil tyrannies of America, South Korea, and Japan? Alas, you will behold the Dear Leader, for he is the greatest, most powerful man in all the world! Sound familiar? And, finally, when you usurp and uprise against such a painful idea, you're turned in by your neighbor to the secret police who throw you in a gulag for torture.
The world of North Korea and the tyrranical heaven depicted so often by the Gods of "The Big Three" are not far removed from one another. Why anyone so readily abandons themselves so recklessly to such a vapid and mindlessly incestuous cause is beyond me. Real or not, and I presume not, you will never find me bowing down to such an awful, demented, and psychotic bastard of the heavens.
everbody's got to serve somebody,whether it be yourself,your boss,your country,your dog or your god,everybody is naturally serving something
If their is a God and He is the center of all that exists,then it is naturaLto serve THIS CENTRE,JUST LIKE PUTTING FOOD IN THE CENTER OF THE BODY(STOMACH)the whole body is served ,so too when one follows the path of devotion,the whole being is benefitted and everything is in its right place,naturaly everything that exists is sub-servient to God,and in giving up our service we have plummetted into material existence that is temporary,everything is attracted to God's energy,its another natural thing,this transcendental bliss is what everyone realy wants,it is the source of all happiness and is eternal,we are parts and parcel of the Godhead,the same spiritual energy that His we are too,the difference is that he is the whole we are the parts,and the parts must serve the whole,otherwise we are out of touch with the highest reality,how we serve God in the eternal spiritual world will be up to the sentiments of the individual
dobeable: I really think you should read your own post again to yourself. It does not say anything except for regurgitating the indoctrined ideas that you have accepted. In this topic we are talking about serving someone else. If you serve yourself, you have complete control over what you think say and do, and then you can choose (according to your own morals) whether these actions are constructive to spiritual growth or destructive to it.
No doubt some people will think that 'serving ourselves' is selfish and not a good thing at all, but that viewpoint is put forward to stop us thinking and acting for ourselves, and serves only to continue the control under which we have placed ourselves by subscribing and serving others. Now you can all think of yourselves as very 'godly' because you are not being selfish and serving yourself. Wake up and take responsibility and control of your own life rather than giving that control and responsibility to another.
I wonder if generally, people really need such a person or organisation in their life to make it worthwhile and ordered for them? Why cant they do this for themselves?
Perhaps a program of self-development is what we all need to show us that we are quite capable of choosing the way we live and the rules we live by. Outside organisations only place restrictions and regulations apon us and offer sweet sickly images of life everlasting sitting on a cloud doing nothing.
dobeable: I really think you should read your own post again to yourself. It does not say anything except for regurgitating the indoctrined ideas that you have accepted. In this topic we are talking about serving someone else. If you serve yourself, you have complete control over what you think say and do, and then you can choose (according to your own morals) whether these actions are constructive to spiritual growth or destructive to it.
No doubt some people will think that 'serving ourselves' is selfish and not a good thing at all, but that viewpoint is put forward to stop us thinking and acting for ourselves, and serves only to continue the control under which we have placed ourselves by subscribing and serving others. Now you can all think of yourselves as very 'godly' because you are not being selfish and serving yourself. Wake up and take responsibility and control of your own life rather than giving that control and responsibility to another.
I wonder if generally, people really need such a person or organisation in their life to make it worthwhile and ordered for them? Why cant they do this for themselves?
Perhaps a program of self-development is what we all need to show us that we are quite capable of choosing the way we live and the rules we live by. Outside organisations only place restrictions and regulations apon us and offer sweet sickly images of life everlasting sitting on a cloud doing nothing.
i dont thnk you got what i meant,bye serving God we are automatically serving our very essence ,which is of a spiritual nature,bye serving the center we are in the right position,we are free from material desire which binds us to the body and is the cause of karma,to break free from material existence one must come to the knowledge of the self and in the self one can find God,this can take millions of lifetimes to get back to,before we even enter this material cosmos,in our ntural state we are servants to God.
as for sitting on a cloud all day doing nothing,well heres the thing,God is living in the spiritual universe on each and every planet simultaneously,and service cou;ld just mean hangin out as kids for a million billion years then we can zip off to some other planet and serve God there in some other adventure,sometimes He serves us,the Veda's state that God interacts with us in accordance with the sentiments of His devotee's.
i agree with what your saying in some ways,but the path to devotion is nesscessary to attain God,we cant do it on our own whims,just like a mechanic has to learn from someone who can teach,so it is with God consioussness,we have to learn from someone who has already seen the truth,someone who is already liberated,and although the Brahman realization and Paramatma realization can be attained bye yoga,to attain the Bhagavan realization one must not only become spiritually pure and self realized but also devote oneself to the cause of all causes.the path to liberation is best accheived through devotion,the reason for this is explained in the Gita,because one must act,we cant sustain from action,and when we act for the satisfaction of mterial desires we become effected bye karma,god and bad,this binds us to temporary existence,but to break free from karma one must act n ot for the senses and sense objects but for God Himself and in doing so their are no karmic effects,and ultimatly it leads to liberation from material entanglement.as i said its all explained nicly in the Gita,but thats up to you if you want to take the time to read the science of self realization.
You actually raise a better point than perhaps you think, in my opinion. Most of the Gods depicted throughout history, and most especially the monotheistic ones of "The Big Three," often depict not just a controlling, 'owning' God but an omnipotent, narcissistic, and maniacal despot.
I can't believe anyone would grovel at the feet of a being that demands constant attention, strict adoration (and adulation), who requires that nothing bad be said about him, that he should not be questioned, or that we have no right to do such a thing. I refuse to worship a being that can literally convict me of thought crime, that will watch who I have sex with, how I have sex with them, what I do in my free time, or how I act and behave when I'm alone. I cannot bring myself to think that it's even a remotely common merit of decency of any being (omnipotent or not) to demand that I thank him for plentiful morsels of food at the dinner plate - while he lets more than half the world's population literally starve to death.
And then... After a lifetime of kissing the "benevolent" behind of the universal, omnipotent security camera, I'm supposed to die and go join him in bliss for eternity? And people ask me to believe that slobbering on the feet of such a monstrous entity is all that is required for me to go to this eternal bliss? How outrageously foolish and stupid does such an idea sound? Would I really trust the idea that something which required so much of my devotion and attention to feed his narcissistic and over-inflated ego would have such a place set aside for me? I think not.
Meanwhile, there is always Option B. I could blaspheme, not believe in such a gargantuan mockery of the human race, and then I could go direct to Hell where I will be tortured and eviscerated for eternity - without even a remote chance in Hell, literally, of ever reaching the point of eternal bliss.
Now, I say... Does North Korea not offer this same sense of "nobility" to their own people? Does the Dear Leader not offer the magnificent rewards of plentiful food and world domination after defeating the evil tyrannies of America, South Korea, and Japan? Alas, you will behold the Dear Leader, for he is the greatest, most powerful man in all the world! Sound familiar? And, finally, when you usurp and uprise against such a painful idea, you're turned in by your neighbor to the secret police who throw you in a gulag for torture.
The world of North Korea and the tyrranical heaven depicted so often by the Gods of "The Big Three" are not far removed from one another. Why anyone so readily abandons themselves so recklessly to such a vapid and mindlessly incestuous cause is beyond me. Real or not, and I presume not, you will never find me bowing down to such an awful, demented, and psychotic bastard of the heavens.
Yo Troop . . . so how do you really feel? The mainstream beliefs of the Big Three are definitely primitive conceptions promulgated and maintained as corruptions that have no resemblance to the true nature of God (revealed unambiguously by Jesus).
I really feel that way and I think it's a travesty people feel forced to worship rather than a desire to worship. If you asked most people, they would probably tell you they have an innate desire to worship but when asked what would happen when rejecting God, the look of horror and fear comes into their eyes... I sometimes wonder if it's possible to fear an entity so much that you begin to worship it out of graven worry? And, thereby, I wonder if you can no longer decipher between a desire to worship and a fear-induced worship?
The God most people describe is nothing worthy of worship, in my opinion. I refuse to worship anything out of plain fear of reprisal. Anything that demands I worship it lest I be punished has, in my opinion, some serious sociopathic tendencies. I'm glad no evidence exists to support the idea of such a being - because I would be a very grief stricken individual to think of the horror of living my life under the watchful eye of an omnipotent Big Brother.
The God most people describe is nothing worthy of worship, in my opinion. I refuse to worship anything out of plain fear of reprisal. Anything that demands I worship it lest I be punished has, in my opinion, some serious sociopathic tendencies. I'm glad no evidence exists to support the idea of such a being - because I would be a very grief stricken individual to think of the horror of living my life under the watchful eye of an omnipotent Big Brother.
Many people would say that the 'evidence' does exist and if you (or I too) choose to reject this evidence then we will suffer the consequences.... I agree with with what you say, and there do not appear to be many christians who want to argue the points raised in this thread. Strange that. They probably think it is christian-baiting, but I see it as a valid discussion.
huge difference between a slave and a son
a son is like the father. a slave is nothing like the master.
the comparison of slave and child in the OP smacks of rebellion and hatred of all authority. was that your intention? indeed hatred of authority is a national malady.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
