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That YOU think nothing is sacred isn't the point. The point is...those you insult do think so.
And personal feelings are irrelevant to a discussion of philosophy, religion, politics, etc.
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Your antibelief isn't the most precious, important thing in your life. To a Christian...God and the Bible, are. THAT is the difference
Only to those Christians who make it the most important thing in their lives. If someone is that dedicated to their religion that it becomes the most important thing in their lives, they need the criticism as a reality check.
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...and you know it. Quit talking around it. If you are going to do it...cop to it like a man. Otherwise, it's not only rude...but cowardly.
?
Cop to what?
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And to try to keep to the topic...If science "wins" where does that leave guys like Collins and Lemaitre? Isn't it funny...it seems the "best of the best" in the science field were/are all Believers!
Aside from the obvious call to authority, faith in God doesn't produce scientific theories or results. Lemaitre didn't have faith that the Big Bang is what happened--he was putting together the evidence. Collins didn't have faith that the genetic code has a responsibility when it comes to disease--he had the scientific method for that.
Faith doesn't get you anywhere in trying to discover truth in reality.
Telling others to censor themselves because YOU can't handle it IS childish.
Your beliefs do not have a unique protection against criticism, and to pretend otherwise IS childish.
Criticizing your beliefs, does not make me "intolerant". Pretending otherwise IS childish.
Trying to link atheism to other behaviors IS childish.
Ignoring any argument that has valid points against your own with strawman arguments, IS childish.
Resorting to insults IS childish.
If you do not want your beliefs to be criticize, then you shouldn't have told us.
Listen to Thomas...learn something. He is right...you are wrong.
Everything you slam Thomas for in this post...you, et al (including me), are the chief offenders...not him. He is one of the classiest guys on this board...he has just been pushed to the limit by you guys that have an inferiority complex about your position that has little to no acceptance, respect, or influence on the world stage. I understand that it bothers you that "God" crushes "No God" by such an overwhelming margin that threads like this (Science will Win) are really pretty much a joke...but you'll just have to learn to deal with it.
I think this is how thomas plans to get the thread closed, but throwing around insults until the mods have had enough.
The thread can go on forever as far as I'm concerned.
I really did see some errors in my thinking there. I traditionally like talking with irreligious people and want a good exchange of ideas. To me things like FSM hamper that because they bring discussion to an immature insult level. So before that post I was discouraging of such things because I expect better from atheists.
However I realized this was incorrect. It's wrong to have unrealistic expectations and usually I know that. I also really should not want you to do better if your goal is increasing apostasy rather than just discussing religion. So I realized my error and will now try to be grateful for your foolish or childish arguments. So I'm saying do what you do with the Spaghetti Monsters and like. I can just enjoy how silly you look. That's better than trying to demand you be something you just can't be. You are not equivalent to the atheist SF authors I talk to elsewhere and my expectation that you should be that sophisticated was unfair to you. It was also against my own interests. You are what you are and I should appreciate you for that rather than trying to push you to be something else.
Steven Hawking is a very booksmart man, but I am very tired of his attention whoring. If there are religious people out there, fine! Let them be religious. It is not that hard. I think he is afraid of religion or something. Heehee!
I was talking about YOU and habit of using the win analogy, in this thread and others.
Of course you evaded the question, your normal diversion.
That is a quote of PT Barnum, but you are the one attempting to twist it into an attack, yet another of your normals.
Is it that you are unarmed with facts, having only diversion and insults in your quiver?
1. Check!
2. No I didn't. I answered it. You want a broader answer? The "win analogy" is the basic tone of the board...in case you didn't notice. Some are better at it than others. Your (the Atheists) Champ at that is "Occam's Bikini Wax"--note his post #52 in lifertexans' thread "Disprove evolution please". Gotta admit...that's damn good. A true inspiration.
3. You made the "sucker born every minute" P.T. Barnum quote...put up as a shot. I turned your gun back on you...a common practice by all. Now you call "twisting it into an attack". Don't sow it, if you don't want to reap it.
I've got plenty of facts...and I put them up. You disagree and don't like it...so you label them "diversion and insults". Same way you label God..."Nature", "The Universe", "All that Exists", etc...then deny the existence of God. You are so filled with "fact arrows" you look like a porcupine...but ask, "where are your fact arrows?"...that's your base "normal".
Now answer me---Tell me who you think "my" God is. You claim to know.
Oh reaaaaaally? All that real estate and this is all your god could think up? He's really lousy at creating.
Maybe God is like that guy who buys a really massive house, then realizes the only furniture he has is an end table with a loose leg and cracked glass. (because he made it and is not much of a carpenter)
listen to thomas...learn something. He is right...you are wrong.
Everything you slam thomas for in this post...you, et al (including me), are the chief offenders...not him. He is one of the classiest guys on this board...he has just been pushed to the limit by you guys that have an inferiority complex about your position that has little to no acceptance, respect, or influence on the world stage. I understand that it bothers you that "god" crushes "no god" by such an overwhelming margin that threads like this (science will win) are really pretty much a joke...but you'll just have to learn to deal with it.
read.
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Originally Posted by gplex
ignoring any argument that has valid points against your own with strawman arguments, is childish.
The thread can go on forever as far as I'm concerned.
I really did see some errors in my thinking there. I traditionally like talking with irreligious people and want a good exchange of ideas. To me things like FSM hamper that because they bring discussion to an immature insult level. So before that post I was discouraging of such things because I expect better from atheists.
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Originally Posted by Gplex
Your beliefs do not have a unique protection against criticism, and to pretend otherwise IS childish.
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Originally Posted by Thomas R.
However I realized this was incorrect. It's wrong to have unrealistic expectations and usually I know that. I also really should not want you to do better if your goal is increasing apostasy rather than just discussing religion. So I realized my error and will now try to be grateful for your foolish or childish arguments. So I'm saying do what you do with the Spaghetti Monsters and like. I can just enjoy how silly you look. That's better than trying to demand you be something you just can't be. You are not equivalent to the atheist SF authors I talk to elsewhere and my expectation that you should be that sophisticated was unfair to you. It was also against my own interests. You are what you are and I should appreciate you for that rather than trying to push you to be something else.
Well I'm glad you find the FSM childish, because that's EXACTLY how I feel about your god.
Telling others to censor themselves because YOU can't handle it IS childish.
Your beliefs do not have a unique protection against criticism, and to pretend otherwise IS childish.
Criticizing your beliefs, does not make me "intolerant". Pretending otherwise IS childish.
Trying to link atheism to other behaviors IS childish.
Ignoring any argument that has valid points against your own with strawman arguments, IS childish.
Resorting to insults IS childish.
If you do not want your beliefs to be criticize, then you shouldn't have told us.
Agree, and I'll add :
Throwing a temper tantrum because you don't get to impose your views of what is sacred or not on others IS childish.
Not to mention that coming off as irrationally defensive about religious belief makes it look like your god concept isn't able to stand up to scrutiny.
In the spirit of the thread, compare how this debate would work if it were done with a scientific subject. Sure, opinions would be heated, but there'd be none of the "you don't uncritically accept my views therefore you're childish and intolerant and I hate all of you!" stuff going on. That's why science wins, in my book at least - sure it might not always be correct but there are ways to figure that out instead of just endlessly debating opinions about stuff that no one knows anything about anyway.
Now answer me---Tell me who you think "my" God is. You claim to know.
That's easy A delusion that you believe as fact because your brainwashing started at an early age, i.e. childhood.
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"There's nothing so absurd that if you repeat it often enough, people will believe it."
William James (1842-1910) The father of modern Psychology
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A delusion that you believe as fact because your brainwashing started at an early age, i.e. childhood.