Pennsylvania Landlord Needing to Move Back into Property (year)

[DowntownHarrisburg]

Originally Posted by hossplankton

I'm not sure how you can just assume from my post that I'm in control of the structural well-being of this house. You're all so quick to condemn, but nobody really understands that I've worked six days a week for the last seven years to provide for my family to come home to a house that looks like the walls could fall in at any time?

I assume you're talking about two different houses here. It was suggested in the other thread that you put your concerns in writing to your landlord and send them via certified mail with a return receipt. List everything that is makes the property unsafe, uninhabitable, or is a code violation. Give your landlord a reasonable time to fix them. The best that the PA Landlord Tenant Act will give you is a penalty-free early exit from your lease. But if I were living in a place with sagging floors and mold growth -- let alone raising children in there -- that would be more than enough.

[STT Resident]

Originally Posted by hossplankton

I'm sure it sounds like we're evil people. Truth of the matter is, this is not what we wanted to happen. When the tenant moved in, she gave him the impression that she would get a mortgage and buy the house within six months. Then she changed her tune. I'm sure all you landlords hit some bumps in the road in your first outing as a landlord...cut us some slack. We're not perfect. She was originally more than agreeable to moving out early, but then when she found out her own mother wouldn't even rent to her and her own father wouldn't help her, that changed. We've been told so many stories about what she's doing that we don't know how to plan our own lives. We were going to actually put the house on the market in January, so she knew this was coming. I don't want to put anyone out, but since she gets government assistance, I think she'll land on her feet just fine.
And if you read my entire post, you'll note that I also asked the question that if she DOESN'T move before the end of the lease and decides to try to stay after the end, what is our course of action?
Maybe I'm just wrong, but if I knew my lease was going to end in four months, I think I'd be looking and not letting it go until the last minute and be without a place to live and facing eviction. All we did was phone her with a number of a house for rent. We've offered her appliances and moving expenses and basically the moon for her inconvenience. Why would I rent another house for just four months? In this area, it's year leases and nothing else. Or yes, I would rent one of those houses in a heartbeat. There's nothing wrong with any one of them and they're all cheaper rent.
Oh, and the Fair Housing Council just told me he was within his rights to give her 60 days to vacate, lease or no lease.
Do I feel bad? Heck, yes. It bothers me everytime I think about it, because that could be me in that situation. And it has been. And I did what I had to do to keep a roof over my kids' heads as a single mother.
The only reason we're upset is because she originally agreed to find another place so we could move back in. Had she said "absolutely not, I have a lease", we would have had to abide by that, and it looks like we will anyway. No one is harrassing her; he simply called with a prospect, something she's always been receptive to until yesterday.
Again, what I was really trying to ask was, if she stays PAST the end of her lease, does the fact that he needs to move back into the property put a different spin on the eviction process and make it move at a different pace?
A year ago, I never would have thought I would want to leave this rental house, so you may think this wasn't thought through; it was. A lot can change in a year, and it has.

You have your answer where the lease is concerned. If she doesn't move out after the lease is over then and only then can you legally take steps to legally evict her and the law will prevail in your favor based on your contractual agreement. You seriously need to understand what a lease or any contractual agreement entails. Unless you have something in writing where a lease amendment is concerned and which is duly signed and attested to by both parties, the contract as initially written and executed is forged in stone.

[hossplankton]

I fully understand the concept of contract, and you are correct. When we initially discussed this with her in January, she was understanding of our situation and willing to cooperate, since we had shelved the idea of putting the house on the market, after first offering it to her. I suppose the reason we're jumping the gun here is because we're afraid of her getting misinformation (as I apparently have been given), and thinking that she can stay past the lease date and wait for him to go through a long eviction process. She has already created turmoil in the neighborhood and broken up the marriage of her "friends" who gave her the reference. I can suck it up and deal with this house until August, but what happens to me if I give my notice to move and then have nowhere to go because she hasn't vacated?
As for everyone's opinions of what we are trying to do, you should understand that we're in this situation because she actually badgered HIM about renting the property before he ever put it up for rent. She had friends who knew he was moving and might rent it (the aforementioned married couple), so she stopped by, called and really pushed to move in. She stated she could only pay $825 a month in rent, and that doesn't even cover the mortgage let alone the HOA fees. Any other comparable townhouse in that area would rent for at least $1,000. But he felt sorry for her kids, and her story about her landlord that wouldn't fix anything (sound familiar?), and even though he got a bad vibe from her during the lease signing, he was swayed by sympathy. Her first rent check bounced and she's been late other months because her government assistance check supposedly got lost.
No one is trying to put a family out, least of all the two of us, who have five children between us. I'm a mother, too. I wouldn't want someone to do this to me, but circumstances pop up from time to time. Several years ago, I had a landlord who was allowing his nephew to work on his properties as a maintenance man, with keys to all the apartments. It came out that his nephew was a many-times convicted sex offender who was only released to his uncle's custody under the provision that he NOT work on the properties and NOT be around children. The landlord promised, but he lied. His preference was young boys, and he was building a treehouse at the end of the street with a specific target in mind, a young autistic boy who trusted him. I got my stuff together and moved out, breaking my lease. I wasn't the only one. I did what I had to do to protect my children, and that's all I'm trying to do now. I realize this is a different situation. I looked at other houses to rent so as to avoid this situation and not have to put her out. I would have gladly paid her security deposit for a new place if money was an issue.
I am not evil; I am just genuinely concerned about how long it could take to get her out if she stays past her lease end. On that note, we are seeing a lawyer tomorrow about our options. And yes, that means I'm paying someone!
And I do genuinely appreciate the advice that wasn't slanted to paint us as Satan. That was what I was looking for, not someone who doesn't know the situation to rush to judgment as to what kind of tenant I am.

[maf763]

Originally Posted by hossplankton

No one is trying to put a family out

Repeating this does not make it true. Nor does criticizing the character of his tenant.

[Metlakatla]

I am just genuinely concerned about how long it could take to get her out if she stays past her lease end. On that note, we are seeing a lawyer tomorrow about our options. And yes, that means I'm paying someone!

Good; I'm glad you're paying a lawyer. I would advise you not to expect that any of your perceptions about the tenants character to be of any legal significance.

It doesn't matter that she asked your bf about renting it. It doesn't matter that she broke up someone's marriage. It doesn't matter that you had a bad landlord yourself at one time. It doesn't matter that she doesn't pay enough rent to suit you. The law is pretty cut and dried and none of the stuff about how he rented it to her because he felt sorry for her has any bearing on the law either.

None of these things negate the contract that your bf signed with her....unless the lawyer can find something in her actions which expressly breaks the conditions of the lease. Maybe that person can find something; who knows.

In the first sentence of your OP you state that the place had been rented to a "couple" but there has been no further mention of another adult being in the picture.

According to you, the house you're in had mold when you moved in.

[hossplankton]

Yes, I understand all the legal ramifications of a contract and am not arguing any points of law! She has a written legal lease/contract that she verbally agreed to break but has since reneged upon learning that her own mother wouldn't lease to her.
But since everyone wanted to point fingers and judge us and actually use the term "poor woman", I figured I'd throw in there that she hasn't exactly been Mother Teresa throughout this tenancy. I have no delusions that this would have any bearing in court.
For the love of all things holy, when will you all get it through your head that we had a verbal agreement with her that she would leave, she changed her mind, and we were advised that we could still go ahead and have her move with 60 days' notice. Sorry I'm not as high-class educated as the rest of you judgmental people. I hope you all feel great about yourselves, ganging up on and putting down someone who just came to this forum for advice. I can't imagine being so nasty with a complete stranger.
And yes, it is a married couple, but the husband's name is not on the lease, the lease is for her and her "minor children."

[Koale]

Originally Posted by hossplankton

I fully understand the concept of contract, and you are correct. When we initially discussed this with her in January, she was understanding of our situation and willing to cooperate, since we had shelved the idea of putting the house on the market, after first offering it to her. I suppose the reason we're jumping the gun here is because we're afraid of her getting misinformation (as I apparently have been given), and thinking that she can stay past the lease date and wait for him to go through a long eviction process. She has already created turmoil in the neighborhood and broken up the marriage of her "friends" who gave her the reference. I can suck it up and deal with this house until August, but what happens to me if I give my notice to move and then have nowhere to go because she hasn't vacated?
As for everyone's opinions of what we are trying to do, you should understand that we're in this situation because she actually badgered HIM about renting the property before he ever put it up for rent. She had friends who knew he was moving and might rent it (the aforementioned married couple), so she stopped by, called and really pushed to move in. She stated she could only pay $825 a month in rent, and that doesn't even cover the mortgage let alone the HOA fees. Any other comparable townhouse in that area would rent for at least $1,000. But he felt sorry for her kids, and her story about her landlord that wouldn't fix anything (sound familiar?), and even though he got a bad vibe from her during the lease signing, he was swayed by sympathy. Her first rent check bounced and she's been late other months because her government assistance check supposedly got lost.
No one is trying to put a family out, least of all the two of us, who have five children between us. I'm a mother, too. I wouldn't want someone to do this to me, but circumstances pop up from time to time. Several years ago, I had a landlord who was allowing his nephew to work on his properties as a maintenance man, with keys to all the apartments. It came out that his nephew was a many-times convicted sex offender who was only released to his uncle's custody under the provision that he NOT work on the properties and NOT be around children. The landlord promised, but he lied. His preference was young boys, and he was building a treehouse at the end of the street with a specific target in mind, a young autistic boy who trusted him. I got my stuff together and moved out, breaking my lease. I wasn't the only one. I did what I had to do to protect my children, and that's all I'm trying to do now. I realize this is a different situation. I looked at other houses to rent so as to avoid this situation and not have to put her out. I would have gladly paid her security deposit for a new place if money was an issue.
I am not evil; I am just genuinely concerned about how long it could take to get her out if she stays past her lease end. On that note, we are seeing a lawyer tomorrow about our options. And yes, that means I'm paying someone!
And I do genuinely appreciate the advice that wasn't slanted to paint us as Satan. That was what I was looking for, not someone who doesn't know the situation to rush to judgment as to what kind of tenant I am.

I think it's time for you to find a new Drama...this one is on rerun...
Koale

[tilli]

Originally Posted by hossplankton

And if you read my entire post, you'll note that I also asked the question that if she DOESN'T move before the end of the lease and decides to try to stay after the end, what is our course of action?

If they don't vacate as agreed in the lease, you must file for eviction. Check your state laws and the language in the lease and really, heed the advice to talk to a lawyer. Your boyfriend is shooting himself in the foot here. You can't just undo a contract because you want to, both parties must be in agreement. You can try buying her out, but you can't just demand that she leaves because you want to live there now, you have an agreement and tenants have rights too. I can see no reason why she could not stay until the end of her legal lease provided she is meeting the terms of the contract.

Maybe I'm just wrong, but if I knew my lease was going to end in four months, I think I'd be looking and not letting it go until the last minute and be without a place to live and facing eviction.

You apparently haven't rented very often. Not many places can give you any idea of their vacancy two months out, much less four. Most leases have an option to renew, and even the most draconian leases around here don't require more notice than 60 days - most only require 30. This makes it nearly impossible to do what you expect of her.

Why would I rent another house for just four months?

Because you need somewhere to live for four months?

In this area, it's year leases and nothing else.

Many landlords are open to making other deals but you'll probably have to pay quite a bit over market rates to compensate for the short term. You could also consider putting your stuff in storage and living at a long-term stay hotel or staying with friends and family for a few months.

the Fair Housing Council just told me he was within his rights to give her 60 days to vacate, lease or no lease.

I strongly doubt this is true. Can you quote the statute that allows this? You really should talk to a lawyer in your area familiar with landlord tenant laws. Even if it was allowed, and again I really doubt it is, why would you do that to a tenant who hasn't done anything wrong? Bad business. Bad karma.

el bad? Heck, yes. It bothers me everytime I think about it, because that could be me in that situation. And it has been. And I did what I had to do to keep a roof over my kids' heads as a single mother.

Good. Have some respect for her and wait until the lease is up. Why does disruption in your lives have to equal disruption in her life? It's not her fault that you poorly planned her lease term.

y reason we're upset is because she originally agreed to find another place so we could move back in. Had she said "absolutely not, I have a lease", we would have had to abide by that, and it looks like we will anyway. No one is harrassing her; he simply called with a prospect, something she's always been receptive to until yesterday.

What you are describing sure sounds like harassment to me. She can choose to stick with her lease even if she was willing to explore other options. Perhaps what you have offered her to end the lease early is not enough to compensate her for the hassle of having to move early. If you were bugging me the way it sounds like you are bugging her I'd stay the entire term just to spite you for making me deal with your drama for the last four months of my legal lease, unless you offered me a seriously sweet deal to leave - in writing. It would have to be enough $$$ to make up for the annoyance you've caused me by forcing me to look for new housing four months before I expected to, and it would have to more than compensate me for the expenses I would incur.

what I was really trying to ask was, if she stays PAST the end of her lease, does the fact that he needs to move back into the property put a different spin on the eviction process and make it move at a different pace?

I don't think so. Eviction is the answer if she stays past the lease. Whether the landlord wants to move back in seems pretty irrelevant - but again these are questions for an attorney, not an internet message board.

[tilli]

Originally Posted by hossplankton

I fully understand the concept of contract, and you are correct. When we initially discussed this with her in January, she was understanding of our situation and willing to cooperate, since we had shelved the idea of putting the house on the market, after first offering it to her. I suppose the reason we're jumping the gun here is because we're afraid of her getting misinformation (as I apparently have been given), and thinking that she can stay past the lease date and wait for him to go through a long eviction process. She has already created turmoil in the neighborhood and broken up the marriage of her "friends" who gave her the reference. I can suck it up and deal with this house until August, but what happens to me if I give my notice to move and then have nowhere to go because she hasn't vacated?

Then you evict her and you make do in the meantime. You could also talk to your landlord about going month-to-month at the end of your lease and only leave after you have possession of the house. It will probably need cleaning and repairs before you move in anyway.

As for everyone's opinions of what we are trying to do, you should understand that we're in this situation because she actually badgered HIM about renting the property before he ever put it up for rent. She had friends who knew he was moving and might rent it (the aforementioned married couple), so she stopped by, called and really pushed to move in. She stated she could only pay $825 a month in rent, and that doesn't even cover the mortgage let alone the HOA fees. Any other comparable townhouse in that area would rent for at least $1,000. But he felt sorry for her kids, and her story about her landlord that wouldn't fix anything (sound familiar?), and even though he got a bad vibe from her during the lease signing, he was swayed by sympathy. Her first rent check bounced and she's been late other months because her government assistance check supposedly got lost.

So?

No one is trying to put a family out, least of all the two of us, who have five children between us.

How would you characterize it? That's exactly what it sounds like to me.

I'm a mother, too. I wouldn't want someone to do this to me, but circumstances pop up from time to time.

Oh, circumstances make it OK to screw other people? This is really a lesson you want your kids learning?

Several years ago, I had a landlord who was allowing his nephew to work on his properties as a maintenance man, with keys to all the apartments. It came out that his nephew was a many-times convicted sex offender who was only released to his uncle's custody under the provision that he NOT work on the properties and NOT be around children. The landlord promised, but he lied. His preference was young boys, and he was building a treehouse at the end of the street with a specific target in mind, a young autistic boy who trusted him. I got my stuff together and moved out, breaking my lease. I wasn't the only one. I did what I had to do to protect my children, and that's all I'm trying to do now.

Did you call the cops to report a sexual offender having contact with children?

I realize this is a different situation.

It certainly is. I don't even understand what you were trying to say with that story other than to assure us that you have no qualms about breaking a lease from the other direction either.

I looked at other houses to rent so as to avoid this situation and not have to put her out. I would have gladly paid her security deposit for a new place if money was an issue.

Money probably is an issue. I'd want more than a security deposit.

I am not evil; I am just genuinely concerned about how long it could take to get her out if she stays past her lease end. On that note, we are seeing a lawyer tomorrow about our options. And yes, that means I'm paying someone!

Good!

And I do genuinely appreciate the advice that wasn't slanted to paint us as Satan. That was what I was looking for, not someone who doesn't know the situation to rush to judgment as to what kind of tenant I am.

All we have to judge you by are your own words, and based on those I sure wouldn't want you for my landlord. A landlord with no respect for a contract is bad news.

[runninwildnfree]

The rules on terminating leases vary per state and county and even city. There are areas where given a proper 30 day notice for termination of the lease with stated intentions like in the case of family emergency to move in an immediate family member or himself that he can break the lease before its time is up. Any way you look at it Notice is required. At the minimum a notice telling them you have no intention or renewing the lease at the subject date is required as is your right. Any way you look at it if she won't move you will end up in court but since rent is not owed and you won't be asking for it and you aren't saying to the judge that she is in default for any reason you will probably get your eviction pretty fast. I've seen judges order the property vacated in as little as 3 days from the first court date.