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Old 11-28-2011, 04:36 AM
 
Location: St Thomas, US Virgin Islands
24,671 posts, read 64,768,864 times
Reputation: 26616

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kim in FL View Post
.......I've been in my attics many times and I never fell thru the ceiling and I didn't have a "finished" floor.

that door is there to access the attic for more than just maintenance...it's for storage as well.
I have to agree. I've lived in numerous homes with attics, too - either used as storage or simply as access for repairs. In not ONE of them could you not walk across whatever "floor" was there. It simply makes no sense at all to allege that if you walk on an "unfinished" attic floor you should have an expectation of falling through it!!!
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Old 11-28-2011, 06:14 AM
 
Location: Central NJ
633 posts, read 1,834,221 times
Reputation: 647
Quote:
Originally Posted by STT Resident View Post
I addressed that earlier in Post#9. The roommate going through the attic flooring through the ceiling below is one thing which I addressed at length. The mold issue is something different which I also addressed. You can lead a horse to water but ...
With all respect STT I was addressing the OP. It is her thread and her issue, I am sure you have valuable input but no one is qualified to speak for someone else or ask a final question.

I am curious why you think the OP should not pay for the damage? It was their decision to look in the attic although it is rare mold will form in an attic, it is generally on the floor, bathroom and basements.

When I lease my place I have to make a point to tell the tenants that although the dining room addition is just outside a bedroom window they are not to go out on the flat roof, it's not a summer deck.

I say this because many have damaging the window and the roof. Thank God no one has fallen off or cut a leg up if they fell through. I am sure they would have sued me and it seems you would be in full support of that.

Just because they rent an apartment is the roof living space in your opinion?

Is it just appropriate as a tenant to exploit every aspect of the space they live in and also on? When do you draw the line that a person must be responsible for their actions?

Now the OP asked a question "will they have to pay" as I understand her question she is trying to learn and understand their responsibility.

STT why are you so weighted in your responses in favor of the "tenant" when it does not seem to be the OP agenda? Hum

Are your responses based on USVI tenant landlord laws? Are you a tenant? and before you answer that please take the extreme land laws and rights to ownership in the USVI.

As per your response to Kim, what is your understanding of "unfinished".
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Old 11-28-2011, 06:53 AM
 
Location: St Thomas, US Virgin Islands
24,671 posts, read 64,768,864 times
Reputation: 26616
Quote:
Originally Posted by new jersey mike View Post
I am curious why you think the OP should not pay for the damage? It was their decision to look in the attic although it is rare mold will form in an attic, it is generally on the floor, bathroom and basements.

Already answered at some length.

When I lease my place I have to make a point to tell the tenants that although the dining room addition is just outside a bedroom window they are not to go out on the flat roof, it's not a summer deck.

I say this because many have damaging the window and the roof. Thank God no one has fallen off or cut a leg up if they fell through. I am sure they would have sued me and it seems you would be in full support of that.

No, I would not be in support of that because you obviously address that issue in your rental/lease agreement.

Just because they rent an apartment is the roof living space in your opinion?

They are not renting an apartment, they are renting a house which has an attic which has an access door and pull-down steps. Unless their lease specifically states that they are not to access the attic space, then they have every right to go into that area.

Is it just appropriate as a tenant to exploit every aspect of the space they live in and also on? When do you draw the line that a person must be responsible for their actions?

I don't see the relevance.

Now the OP asked a question "will they have to pay" as I understand her question she is trying to learn and understand their responsibility.

Different viewpoints on the answer.

STT why are you so weighted in your responses in favor of the "tenant" when it does not seem to be the OP agenda? Hum

I am not.

Are your responses based on USVI tenant landlord laws? Are you a tenant? and before you answer that please take the extreme land laws and rights to ownership in the USVI.

What relevance do the USVI landlord tenant laws have, and what relevance is my current living status whether it be landlord or tenant or neither?

As per your response to Kim, what is your understanding of "unfinished".
I would imagine the same as anyone else's. Again I'm missing the relevance.
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Old 11-28-2011, 07:06 AM
 
Location: in a cabin overlooking the mountains
3,078 posts, read 4,061,655 times
Reputation: 2263
Perhaps it is a matter of what is common for the region.

Most attics around here are unfinished, meaning that you cannot simply access the attic and go stomping around as if it were the "next floor up." This is common knowledge and I can't imagine a tenant thinking they have any business in an attic. Electricians and other professionals who KNOW how to walk around in unfinished attics go up ther but that is it.

I say the OP is is on the hook for for damages to the ceiling. CptnRn said it perfectly (sorry I can't rep you again!).
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Old 11-28-2011, 07:20 AM
 
16,380 posts, read 20,353,919 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FrugalYankee View Post
Perhaps it is a matter of what is common for the region.

Most attics around here are unfinished, meaning that you cannot simply access the attic and go stomping around as if it were the "next floor up." This is common knowledge and I can't imagine a tenant thinking they have any business in an attic. Electricians and other professionals who KNOW how to walk around in unfinished attics go up ther but that is it.

I say the OP is is on the hook for for damages to the ceiling. CptnRn said it perfectly (sorry I can't rep you again!).
It is common knowledge in my area also...that homes with crawl space attics have drywall in between the rafters and you cannot walk on the drywall. You have to crawl/walk on the wood supports. There is HVAC ducting and electrical wire up there also. It is not meant for walking up there. It is mainly is just an access place for wiring/ducting and you have to be very, very careful up there. If someone stores things up there, it is usually a few boxes that are located just near the opening/hatch.

It's not like the attics of yesteryear where you walked through a real door and into a room that had real flooring and you didn't have to bend down. Those are totally different than crawl spaces.
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Old 11-28-2011, 07:42 AM
 
Location: Bel Air, California
23,780 posts, read 25,624,184 times
Reputation: 37109
Quote:
Originally Posted by STT Resident View Post
GARBAGE BAGS? Surely you jest. A lab doesn't need a garbage bag full of mold to test it, no more than they need a month's worth of your poop to test it for worms when you apply for a state Health card to work in the food handling business!
LOL, I didn't mean to fill the garbage bag but just put your sample in each one to maintain the integrity and prevent cross contamination. I'd recommend doing the same thing with your poop as well.
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Old 11-28-2011, 07:51 AM
 
Location: St Thomas, US Virgin Islands
24,671 posts, read 64,768,864 times
Reputation: 26616
Quote:
Originally Posted by FrugalYankee View Post
Perhaps it is a matter of what is common for the region.
I believe that's the crux of the whole matter. What may be common in TX may not be common in CA or in the NorthEast or FLA but I still disagree that the OP is responsible for the damage based solely on what's been described here.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghengis View Post
LOL, I didn't mean to fill the garbage bag but just put your sample in each one to maintain the integrity and prevent cross contamination. I'd recommend doing the same thing with your poop as well.
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Old 11-28-2011, 08:29 AM
 
Location: Central NJ
633 posts, read 1,834,221 times
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I'm going to move on from this link since now it's not about the tenants issues as much as others issues.

STT is correct look at the specific state laws where you reside
Landlord/Tenant Book Index - California Department of Consumer Affairs


Tenant's responsibility for repairs Tenants are required by law to take reasonable care of their rental units, as well as common areas such as hallways and outside areas. Tenants must act to keep those areas clean and undamaged. Tenants also are responsible for repair of all damage that results from their neglect or abuse, and for repair of damage caused by anyone for whom they are responsible, such as family, guests, or pets.135 Tenants' responsibilities for care and repair of the rental unit are discussed in detail below.


I asked the OP if a COO was required but I believe she did not answer that question. I would suspect that if a COO was required and there was existing mold the LL would have had to repair and remove the mold.

Something for us to think about and consider is if it did not exist and the tenant cause an issue or an environment that created the mold would it be their responsibility to have it removed.

A lot of intentional and unintentional damage can happen in 3 months. For this home to be consumed in mold then there is more then we know.

My MIL passed a couple of years ago and during that time we had to deal with her house. The bills were adding up and we were looking to lower costs, so we lowered the heat she normally had it at 80 and we shut off unnecessary appliances.

Well did we screw up during contract negotiations lights were turned on in the basement and OMG the mistake we made. There was mold everywhere the dehumidifier was on for a reason but with the heat at 80 you would not know it. The combined error on our part created the problem which we were responsible for.

We can give advise here at CD but we will never know the full story be that though omission or ignorance of an OP, that's why I ask a lot of questions at first.

Now I have to go and fix the ceiling under that flat roof due to contractor negligence. Why am I fixing negligence? because the court mediator told me to accept it and drop the case it will cost me more to continue to fight it in court.

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Old 11-28-2011, 11:10 AM
 
Location: St Thomas, US Virgin Islands
24,671 posts, read 64,768,864 times
Reputation: 26616
Newjerseymike, you are, in my opinion, seriously off kilter here and rambling. What is a COO?

In a three month period it's beyond unlikely that a tenant could have caused a mold problem of this dimension. Good grief.
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Old 11-28-2011, 07:24 PM
 
Location: Georgia, USA
33,515 posts, read 35,134,591 times
Reputation: 40045
Quote:
Originally Posted by STT Resident View Post
I have to agree. I've lived in numerous homes with attics, too - either used as storage or simply as access for repairs. In not ONE of them could you not walk across whatever "floor" was there. It simply makes no sense at all to allege that if you walk on an "unfinished" attic floor you should have an expectation of falling through it!!!
But "unfinished" means no floor at all.

My attic has some space that has plywood over the floor joists for storage and some space that has no "flooring" at all. What you see when you look at that area is insulation between the joists. If you are not careful when you walk on the unfloored area to stay on the joists, you can easily put a foot through the insulation and then through the sheet rock on the ceiling beneath the attic. That is what happened in the the OP's attic, and the person who did it should be responsible for the repair.
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