Section 8 Tenants and Landlords (CA) (rentals, house, record, legal)
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I'm happy for you that you finally got your section 8 voucher. I know it takes years of being on the waiting list. You are incredibly lucky. I know people who can't even get on the list.
But, don't you think it's a bit unreasonable to be mad about your situation? If I am correct, you only have to come out of pocket 30% of your income for rent. What does that work out to for you? If you're on SSI, maybe $300?
Don't you think it should be a little bit difficult to find housing that only costs you that much?
And I'm not going for the "landlord gets full rent." I'm talking about you. Your portion. Why should getting a deal like that be easy?
And the truth is, it's not easy or a great deal for the landlord. Bottom line. So, no, it won't be easy to find a decent place that accepts section 8.
I might feel sorry for the thousands of people still on the waiting lists, and the thousands more who can't even get on the closed waiting lists...all of whom have to pay for cheap housing at full price or live in shelters or their cars. All of whom would give their eye teeth to have your voucher problems.
I'm just not feeling sorry for you today. Can't do it.
You are saying some landlords cannot bring their properties up to code.
As a former manager of property and now a voucher recipient I can say with authority that your list of items about the program are a worst case scenario.
I sign a lease for April1, I move on April 1. Unless of course the property was unable to meet code. What is so extra stringent about any code criteria listed on any sec 8 program site for any housing agency that is available for all the world to see?
The programs are understaffed and overworked? So they always say. Most housing agencies are slow with the voucher holders and not the landlords. Many have express areas for property holders.
Check payments are guaranteed.
What level of service are you speaking about exactly?
btw, I've never met a responsible and honest property owner who dealt with HUD Vouchers that ever had serious complaints outside of personality conflicts between inspectors and managers/owners of property. All government housing programs come with the equivalent of a rule book any educated person could understand. The HUD affiliated housing agencies usually bend over backwards, or should, to get good and decent property owners into their programs, unless of course those properties want to raise rents as high as possible and help destabilize a neighborhood by making it more transient by the nature of frequent movings in and out of tenants
You're throwing the word "code" around as if you know what it is and how it is applied for Section 8. Aside from the normal habitability standards, lead paint inspections, fire code inspections and inspections by the idiot freelancers who contract for insurance companies, my properties already meet all applicable, reasonable and unreasonable codes. The last thing I need is for yet another amateur to come along and kvetch because the toilet paper holder is 22" above floor level instead of 24."
Quote:
Originally Posted by spankys bbq
Every time a section 8 inspector has nitpicked away at any of our properties, we have wound up spending several thousand dollars in so-called repairs. Tenant doesn't use a shower curtain and causes water damage to the floor. Landlord problem. Tenant paints all the windows shut. landlord problem. Tenant kicks bottom out of storm door. Landlord problem. All of these we are required to fix if they turn up in the inspection.
You don't know how infuriating the program can really be until you are the one writing checks out of your account to repair things the tenant broke and you have no real recourse. Sure, you can kick them out if you want to but you will likely never see any money for the damages. You can't get money from someone who has none.
We have one last Section 8 tenant left and when she is gone we will never participate in the program again unless we are legally forced to do so. Every one of the Section 8 tenants has been more of a headache than its worth.
^^^^ This.
I've rented to Section 8 and all I can say is NEVER AGAIN. There may be some who will not trash the place but I will not take the risk. I once got the results of an inspection from someone who wanted to go onto Section 8 who was already living in the apartment. The place didn't pass inspection. Broken light fixtures, damaged electrical outlets. Fortunately I knew someone in the local office who knew me and my properties. I told them there was no way I was going to do any repairs while those people were in there since they busted the place up faster than I could fix it. I had those people gone in a few months and even though it is illegal to "discriminate" against Section 8 tenants in VT, believe you me I can and will find a way to exclude them.
You can move to ANYWHERE in the darn country once you get a Section 8 voucher. In SoCal, areas like Palmdale are an option since rental rates are lower and often not as in demand. You should be looking in Kern, Riverside, and San Bernadino county as well.
You can also qualify to buy a home with a subsidized loan through the USDA.
I was born in SoCal and have lived here my entire life. I can afford to continue renting where I live, but it might become an affordability issue at some point, so I'm being proactive now. I'm permanently disabled and I'm relocating and buying my first home in an area with homes that have a lower cost of living, so that I'll never be in a position to need Section 8 or food stamps. This means moving away from family which is difficult because of my problems with driving any distance and because of all the help I receive due to my health.
So, the government has provided you with an entitlement, it doesn't mean that private landlords have enough of an incentive to participate in the program--that's their right. You can always decline the voucher and rent a room in an area you can afford, if you're unhappy with the program.
You provided generalizations, some of which I see as worst case scenarios not representative of the whole.
I do not want to argue that some landlords are wrong/stupid/illogical since it is only right/smart/logical to assume some are and some are not.
My experiences on different sides of the HUD program is an interesting one. I remember in tough times when landlords could not fill apts with rents they needed to pay off mortgages and upkeep of property they got in over their heads on, they flooded HUD programs while building up their properties to code. HUD payments kept many from losing all they ever worked for (or inherited).
I have many other stories and views on this, many very helpfully to anyone who truly needs stable and reliable tenants, but part of the deal for people would be learning how to screen people (social skills) and how to manage a property without letting these crazy management companies rip them off.
I sometimes think of starting a management company out here that does it all, but I find many property owners out here to be stupid and greedy. A deadly combination. See many sleeping in cars and storing their own belongings in autos or sheds.
Huge swaths of SoCal are nothing but a mix of Ghetto and Potemkin Village - in my opinion and observation
If you're able to run a business, than perhaps it would be a better option for you to do so, or obtain employment so that you can pay for rent wherever you choose. You say you have PM experience, so why not get a job in a complex that provides housing?
You're simply not going to get a desireable apartment with ocean views when landlords have no problem renting those out for top dollar, to people with stable jobs/income, good credit and the ability to pay maximum deposits.
I have a section 8 certificate or voucher as they now call it. Most affordable places I've seen in SoCal, that meet market rate standards set by HUD and state Housing agencies, do not meet all the health and building codes required before a prospective tenant with a voucher would be allowed to move in. I've seen properties in my area I know I could not move into go through a year or two with cycles of tenants who posses no vouchers moving in and out, taking in stray roommates, midnight moves, evictions, and on and on.
What is it some people have against bringing their property up to code and then renting to responsible sec8 voucher tenants?
I think I can help clear the confusion...
For the most part a property is "Up to Code" as long as it continues to meet the code at the time it was constructed.
There is no requirement in most instances that a property owner must adopt later versions of code.
Some areas of the country still have almost no building codes and others... have very stringent.
Section 8 conditions lease approval on a Federal Standard... property owners are under no obligation to meet this standard unless they choose to do business with the Federal Government.
At one time I managed a fair number of Section 8 units and with all the changes... the only Section 8 units I manage today are legacy units... families that have been there over 10 years.
A big issue in my area is window screens... it is a Section 8 requirement... not State or Local.
I think part of the problem you are experiencing is due to bad experiences some owners have had with the program...
The decision to no longer accept new Section 8/Vouchers came after the program would no longer consider damage claims... the reason Housing got out of Damage Claims is because it was on the hook and paying out significant money.
Return Section 8 to the program it was 30 years ago when I started and I would reconsider.
Last edited by Ultrarunner; 05-27-2013 at 12:25 PM..
As someone who has represented tenants since the mid-70's, I can tell you that the answer is simple.
1. Many landlords will avoid the expense of maintaining their property if they can make money by renting out substandard premises.
2. In most places the code enforcement authorities don't bother forcing landlords to maintain their property.
As an expert, please tell the class why you think it would possibly be in our best interest to not maintain a property? I think we all know that proper routine maintenance is key to keeping a house in good condition for the long term. Maybe you just had the pleasure of dealing with slum lords.
Substandard conditions lead to less rent, less qualified tenants, and eventually a LOT less money in the landlords pocket. You can also add lowered property values to that short list.
Based on past experiences, people are not willing to risk the considerable costs of repairs when some agency can withhold rent because you refuse to fix something a tenant willfully broke. Your average tenant can't just withhold rent (except in certain circumstances), so why should this program be allowed to use a practice which has been shot down in court time and time again? Especially when it comes to damage deliberately caused by a tenant who does not have the means to pay for their own damage. Our choice comes down to taking the portion that Section 8 pays, eating the damage and moving on; or just getting out of the program altogether.
As far as code enforcement not forcing landlords to fix things, they'll condemn a house here if you don't fix it. And there is the option of criminal charges and penalties.
I flirted briefly with the idea of offering my house to Section 8 in January. I called and asked if I could get the house inspected to see what I may need to repair/change to offer the house as such. I could not get such an inspection until I already had a qualified (by my standards) Section 8 applicant. Only then would they come inspect, tell me the myriad of tiny things I might have to fix, then I could rent to the applicant.
I read the standards but they were so superficial and didn't really tell me the level of detail an inspector might look for. Yes all the windows work and have locks, though the one in the bathroom is a bit stiff, would I have to replace it? For a normal tenant, no, for Section 8, possibly, who knows?
There is a 5" concrete step down into the screened front porch. Not an issue for a normal tenant, would I have to get someone to grade the concrete for Section 8? Who knows, probably. Certainly far more of an expense then I want for sure. Does the entire house have to be ADA accessible? I don't know and the website doesn't tell me. Its a very old house and the back door is not 36", so I would have to have this old concrete house knocked apart and reframe the back door for Section 8? Not going to happen.
Still, unsure as I was, I advertised on gosection8.com. The only two replies I got where people who apparently either wanted me to magically produce an additional bedroom and a larger septic tank for their multiple children, or, wanted me to reduce my very fair rent to the amount of their voucher, so they wouldn't have to pay more then that.
Not going to happen.
I was very relieved when 2 weeks into my ads I obtained a fully qualified non-section 8 adult couple that could afford the rent 4 times over, and each singly if needed, and paid first, last and security in cash without batting an eye, and also did not try to ding me down on the rent, they had already done the research on what market rates were, and availability, and snatched up my rental as quickly as they could.
I doubt I will ever advertise for section 8 again.
If you can simplify by not going the Section 8 route and rent for a higher amount... why not?
I have one Section 8 tenant that pays $1346 per month and Section 8 pays $29 a month.
All my Section 8 tenants work regular jobs and as they advance... some will no longer qualify.
Another problem I have had is market rent exceeds Section 8 limits... I see no reason to take a cut... especially when Section 8 no longer covers damages...
I still have several and will continue... just have not had any new in the last 10 years.
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