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For some background, I have a tenant that has just given me a 30 day notice to vacate. They are on a year lease, that will end in august. They gave me the notice in the middle of the month of May. When they first signed, they provided 1st month, last month, and security deposit.
Early last month, they caused water damage to the house, presumably from a sink overflowing. Water flowed from the 2nd floor to the 1st floor ceiling, resulting in drywall damage and cleanup costs. They insisted that it was caused by a leak, and the damage is not their fault. I had multiple water damage companies and a plumber perform an inspection, all of which could not find a leak anywhere. Their reasoning behind claiming innocence with the water damage is that they do not know where the water came from, but its not their fault nor their responsibility. The resulting damage will be about $6000.
As soon as I determined that the damage was not caused by the plumbing, I informed them that they would have to pay for the damage, at which point they became livid. They insisted that since they believed they were innocent that they should not have to pay for the damage, and that it should fall on my shoulders, since it is my house. They believe that I am completely unfair since I am not taking full responsibility for their mistake, and our landlord-tenant relationship has deteriorated.
One additional item is that when this water damage occurred, I found the pressure reducing valve bolt almost removed from the valve, and water leaking from it. I had to replace the valve, as it was no longer functioning. They again stated that they had no idea how that happened, but it was again not their responsibility. I lived in this house in the previous 8 years, and never had this issue.
My question is how to respond to their notice? From what I understand of the laws, since they gave me notice mid-month, the 30 day timeframe would apply to when the new month starts, which would be the beginning of June, and they would not be entitled to any prorate. My lease agreement also does not have any early termination clause.
Upon inspecting the premises, it has generally been kept decent, with the exception of the lawn and shrubbery. The lawn now has an excessive amount of clover, where there was none prior. The shrubbery is completely overgrown, and will require excessive pruning. Hopefully that is the extent of what needs to be fixed. I was wondering if the security deposit can be used to correct this neglect?
Another question would be in relation to the security deposit. I filed a claim with my insurance company, which will cover the damage. The deductible is more than the security deposit. I was wondering if I can use the security deposit to offset the deductible? I guess if the insurance company ends up suing my tenants during subrogation, they have a chance to recover my deductible, and stated that they would send me my deductable back if able to do so. If this process take several months, would I be responsible for returning any remaining security deposit then, less the amount used for the non-water damage items? Also, if I use the security deposit for the deductible, could I sue them for the amount of the remaining deductible as well as any additional damaged items I find during inspection.
One last item would be since they are breaking the lease, would they be liable for the remaining rental money thru the end of the contract, which would be one more monthly payment. I would probably be OK if they left early, as I do not trust them to take responsibility for what they do, should any further damage occur. I am just wondering what my rights are in this matter, what I can sue them for, and how to respond to their notice?
Their notice states the reason for moving is due to the fact that they no longer feel as though it is a safe environment for their family. They also feel that they have been falsely accused of the water damage. They did not provide any additional reason as to why they feel it is not safe for their family, and I have not breached the subject with them at this point. Is this a question I need to ask, or can I just let me move out, and then proceed with suing them, if able?
A lease is not an indenture where you can force them to remain.
You want them out. Don't make it difficult for either of you to settle up and move on.
If they want to leave tomorrow... "Ok Hon. You paid June's rent. You can go anytime before the 30th."
Just be VERY clear to separate the rent due aspect from the damages aspect.
They owe rent for every minute they remain in place...
and every minute it takes you to find a replacement for them.
Focus on THAT. Fix, clean, advertise... re-rent.
As to the water damage... that might require a Judge to settle.
Cross that bridge AFTER they have moved out.
You have 30 days after they leave to tell them how much the work needed will cost.
The water damage work and any other damage they might cause.
You'll need some documentation if it adds up to very much.
Last thing: Only the WRITTEN word counts in court.
You can have "chats" with them but follow that up with an "As per our discussion Tuesday evening..." letter
Anything that describes specific expectations really should be done by certified mail.
First you said there was no leak, but then you said you found a leak in the water pressure valve. I assume this was for the water heater?
If this is the case, I believe the tenants, that they didn't leave water running. The leak occured when the water pressure valve malfunctioned, or was loose from pressure/time/age.
I would not charge them any money toward the deductible for the water damage based on this.
As far as moving out early...you can charge them the full rent, on the due date, until the end of the lease. However, if someone else moves in before lease end,, then they don't owe you from that day forward. You must advertise and make all attempts to get new renters before the lease end date.
You are allowed to take owed rent from the security deposit, including prorated rent for the remainder of June. You can also take July rent from security deposit...BUT...research state law...you MUST send notice of taking security deposit deductions by a certain date. It is often 15 or 30 days from when they move out. If you dont send this notice, then you owe them full deposit back. So if you charge July rent from the deposit, make sure it is after July 1 but before the due date of when the notice must be sent.
As far as shrubbery, yes you can charge them. But really, most renters dont trim bushes. I had a tenant that didn't trim bushes and didn't weed EVER. I did the work myself. It was hard and sweaty work but I didn't charge them a penny. They never mulched either. All they did was cut the grass.
I think you are too picky about the clover. I wouldn't charge them for it. I also woudn't charge for the shrub trimming. But you can if you choose.
IMO, you wronged them by blaming them for the leak and I cannot blame them for moving. I would probably not charge them for anything and call it a day.
Next time you hire a lawn care person and charge higher rent.
Last edited by sware2cod; 06-05-2013 at 03:18 PM..
I think you guys are misunderstanding me about the valve. The leaking valve was in the garage on the first floor. Obviously someone messed with it, to cause it to leak. There was no leak on the 2nd floor where the water damage started from. When the companies came out to look for a leak on the 2nd floor, they could not find any, hence why it was probably caused by an overflow.
I think you guys are misunderstanding me about the valve. The leaking valve was in the garage on the first floor. Obviously someone messed with it, to cause it to leak. There was no leak on the 2nd floor where the water damage started from. When the companies came out to look for a leak on the 2nd floor, they could not find any, hence why it was probably caused by an overflow.
I wonder what a judge would say to 'probably'.
If I had a landlord accusing me of causing $6k in damage over 'probably', I'd tell them 'see you in court, buddy!'
I say probably an overflow as that is the only reason the plumber and water damage companies could come up with as to why the water damage occurred. They could not find a leak or any other reason for why the water damage occurred.
I guess a question would be: from the comments received, if the tenant overflows a sink on the 2nd floor which causes this damage, I should be the one that takes responsibility to fix it without holding them accountable? So if they just decided to leave the water running the entire term of the lease and flooded my entire house, they could essentially just walk away without having to worry about any of the resulting damage. That to me does not make much sense.
With the leaking valve, which again is in the garage on the 1st floor, there did not occur before, during, or after, any water leaking within the house, caused by the damaged pressure valve. The only thing that needed to be done was the valve required replacement, but all the plumbing fixtures still work as intended, and were not damaged. Also, since it apparently was messed with while they were occupying the residence, wouldn't they also be responsible for the resulting damage, if there was any? As I mentioned, the bolt was completely unscrewed when I found it, hanging by 2 threads, and the jamnut completely loose. Prior to their occupancy, the valve was never adjusted, the pressure was fine and the bolt was secured by the jamnut.
i wonder if that valve that was loose/broken on the first floor was the of caused leaking on the 2nd floor. Possibly pressure of some sort and it was so bad that it caused a leak upstairs and then the pressure was so bad the valve came loose.
I dont see why anyone would ever mess with the water pressure valve. Why would they do that...it makes no sense. I think it points to something that went wrong.
Maybe that cannot find the leak now because the pressure buildup situation is over.
Maybe it's a leaky drain for a tub or a bathroom that is hardly used. The 'leak' would only be noticed when the tub is draining. Or a shower issue under the pan and possibly the shower is hardly used so the issue is intermittent.
I dont see where there is 100% proof that it wasn't a leak of some sort caused by something other than tenant neglegence.
I was a renter in a home that had a spare bathroom that I hardly used. When you flushed the toilet, clean water came rushing in from rusted out bolts between the tank and the toilet. I didn't notice this issue for 6 months because I would flush and then leave that room and rarely used the room. Never heard water rushing to the floor because flushing noise occured at same time. It was a slab so no damage, but it wasn't anything I did wrong.
My point is, you could have a leak that only happens in certain situations. Or maybe occured due to the pressure valvue issue and cannot be duplicated.
----I just remembered another odd 'leak' situation. A family member has this occur a couple times per year. I was visiting once and witnessed this.:
The city periodically does some kind of sewer line backflush. They open up the fire hydrant on the corner and they have some equipment that makes a bunch of noise.
This causes the toilets in the house to gush up with water from the bowl and spill onto the floor. There is a girgling sound and the water is rushing. This caused damage to the subfloor under the toilets and they had to get them repaired. They werent home previous times when this occurred so they couldn't wipe it up in time.
When I eyewitnessed this situation, I ran outside and talked to the city workers about what was going on. They said that if my family installed a backflow valve at the entry point into the home, it would prevent the water rush.
The point is, this is another intermittent overflow where there is no negligence by the person living in the home. And it would be impossible for a plumber to duplicate the issue. If you weren't home when the city workers did the backflush, the water damage would be an unsolved mystery. Which is what you have at this time.
--------2 more mystery leaks. This were in my home. 1) insulated pipe that connects to the AC condensor outside the home. Heavy blowing rains caused the insulated wrapper of the pipe to fill with water (filled between the pipe and the insulationed pipe wrapper). Water entered the home and started leaking from the wall/ceiling and leaked buckets and buckets of water.
2) The water drainage PVC pipe coming from the AC air handler inside the home, to the outside. The drainage pipe got loose at the connection to the air handler and water leaked on the floor. The loose connection wasn't caused by neglegence.
You cannot simply blame the renters because you didn't find a leak. Lots of things cause water damage. I highly doubt they overflowed a sink or tub.
Last edited by sware2cod; 06-05-2013 at 04:30 PM..
Can you think of any reason a tenant would mess with the pressure reducing valve bolt? That seems like a very odd thing for a tenant to fiddle with. Are those something that can come loose on their own? Maybe from pressure, vibration, flexing of the pipe, etc...? This is one of those issues that you may have a hard time pinning on your tenant should you go to court over it. To your eye, it seems obvious that they messed with it, but to an impartial judge...maybe not so obvious.
As for the water damage to the second floor...did your multiple water damage companies and a plumber actually tell you what caused the damage? Or did they just tell you that it didn't appear to be from any obvious leaks? This may be another issue you have if you go before a judge. The judge wants to hear what caused the damage you are charging for...not what didn't cause it.
Unfortunately, it sounds like you should let your insurance company deal with it (they can pursue the tenants for compensation if they deem it appropriate). You can try listing the deductible as a charge against their deposit, but you better be able to prove it was a legitimate claim if they take you to court.
I understand that when you can't find a leak, then it is not easy to find what the answer is, as well as not wanting to blame someone for something they didn't do. The fact is that in the previous 8 years, this issue never did occur. The water damage looks like it originated near the door to the bathroom, where a sink is. This bathroom is used regularly, as it was used by the children of the tenants. When the water damage company was removing the flooring and carpet, the most saturated area was in that area. Looking with the inspector from the water damage company, he came to the conclusion that it was sink overflow. This is the same answer that the other companies came to, especially after they learned that the tenants have a couple young children. In the area where the water damage looked like it started, there is no indication that the water originated above it, like coming from the attic. At the time of the damage, there was no rain storms occurring. Looking in the attic, there was no indication of any water pooling anywhere, including around the AC units. When everything was checked out in the bathroom, all fixtures were in working shape, with all hoses tightly connected. There was also no issue with the toilets suffering from the backflow issue mentioned prior, as I believe we have a backflow regulator, and have never experienced that issue. But judging from the water stains in the subfloor once the vinyl was removed, the water did not originate near the toilet nor the shower, but near the door, where one of the sinks was.
I am not quite sure why anyone would mess with the pressure... I never did, and never do. But I am not everyone. I do know some people like hotter water, and will increase the temperature of the water heater. I think the same can be said for the water pressure. I just can't quite understand if they didn't mess with it, why all of the sudden, when everything was in good working order, with no issues whatsoever, prior to them moving in, would these issues just happen to randomly occur after they are there.
I guess at what point can you say that the tenants made a mistake and are responsible. I did not have any photos or video of them doing this, but when this has not occurred in all the years I was living there, when the issue has not occurred since, and all lines are pressurized, I don't quite understand how it could point to anything else.
As a side note, one clause in my contract under damages states that the tenant is responsible for all damages, whatever the cause, unless it is due to an act of the landlord. So, that is also another reason why I believe the responsibility falls to them, not just the idea that it looks like it was caused by accidental overflow.
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