Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
You can't pick and choose which parts of the process you want to follow and which you want to ignore
and not have that come back to bite you. You dealt with them verbally on the notice and terms...
and by that you gave up the right to expect written on these.
Actually, the only time I dealt with them verbally was in the termination of the lease. We have lease documents signed, as well as a signed renewal stating I would keep the SD if they broke the lease. The lease stated they must give a 60-day written notice to vacate... I never got that. She just called me on the phone saying they bought the house and wanted to move out early.
In Minnesota, you are not required to mitigate damages, if the tenant abandons the lease. You can charge rent until the lease ends, unless you rent it to someone else before lease end date.
I did rent it out after the middle of the month, and was looking to negotiate that with the tenant and she refused. She wanted the whole deposit back. Do I still owe her for the time it was rented? What about utilities, could I deduct that as well?
Quote:
They did not give you written notice, and moved out 1 month early, therefore, they abandoned the lease.
Indeed they did. The only reason I even bring this up is that she said to me that since I missed the 21 day deadline after she moved out (not the lease termination), I forfeit all claims and I have to pay up.
Quote:
Plus, they signed an agreement , with a liquidated damages clause that said that they would pay you the amount of the security deposit, if they broke the lease.
I think you are good to keep it. And if they take you to court, I think you'd win.
I sure hope so. I'm willing to fight her on this on principle... but only if I have a shot. Because if what MrRational is saying is right, then that means whatever we signed in the lease renewal is void. If that's the case, would we then default to the original lease... meaning, she abandoned the lease?
I'm willing to fight her on this on principle... but only if I have a shot.
What losses can you PROVE are wholly the responsibility of this tenant?
So far I've seen you describe something less than one months rent
and some portion of the turnover clean up... less the SD. Close?
How much of the delay in having the place ready for the next tenant was because of
turnover work (eg: paint & carpet) that you would have had to do anyway?
The tenant is required to give written notice. Until the tenant gives written notice, you can assume they are still occupying the premise. BUT, if you in any way acknowledge the tenant has vacated the property (such as going in to clean, indicating the property is available immediately, communicating to the tenant that you acknowledge them vacating, accepting the keys, etc.), you cannot fall back on the written notice. The written notice would come into play if you or they dispute terminating the lease, but if you acknowledge the termination and acted as if you knew the place was terminated, the notice really doesn’t matter under your state law.
You can use the deposit for damages. Damages include owed rent and monies. However, the timelines still must be followed.
Now, MN has no statues regarding mitigation. It’s all based on case law. Case law supports that a landlord has NO DUTY to mitigate when a person breaks the lease. However, case law in MN also imposes a duty to mitigate when the landlord willingly accepted or agreed to the termination or agreed on conditions to terminate early.
Also, you can put liquidated damages in the lease BUT, the problem is you have to specific an amount to be owed; saying you forfeit the security deposit may be unenforceable since the law require ‘money owed’ not forfeiture of deposits. Did you actually say "forfeit of the security deposit" or did you indicate an amount that was equal to the security deposit? On this you may want to seek legal assistance.
However, the underlying issue of the 21 days is key. If you accepted the leys from the tenant, if you communicated in any way with them acknowledging the lease termination, or anything else that established you accepted the termination, that is the day the 21 days starts. If it's been more than 21 days and you have not followethe law, return the whole thing because under the law, the tenant will get it back anyways. If it goes to court, you stand to pay the tenant even more than the security deposit.
I appreciate your reply. So, since I didn't send something in the mail indicating losses before the 21 days was up, I'm out of luck?
If I were to claim damages, it really would be for unpaid rent, utilities, the carpet, and the cleaning we had to do. I didn't hire for cleaning, but we spent about a week just cleaning. All that's gone now, and no judge would even want to hear my side of the story since I missed the 21-day deadline?
So, since I didn't (follow the recognized due process and statute law), I'm out of luck?
Worse even. In this example you've opened yourself to even greater liability.
Quote:
and the cleaning we had to do. I didn't hire for cleaning, but we spent about a week just cleaning.
ftr few Courts will pay a landlord to work for himself and most will have a crib sheet of
time/amount to gig for certain tasks regardless of how long Joe or Steve may have taken to do them.
Quote:
...and no judge would even want to hear my side of the story since I missed the 21-day deadline?
They'll listen. The problem is that they'll also be hearing the parts you don't them to hear.
If you missed the 21 day requirement, return the deposit if thats what they are asking for. Technically, you also owe them the required 1% interest on the money since they gave it to you. If you missed the deadlines to return the depoosit AND the court finds you actions were in bad faith, you will also be penalized an additional $500 to the tenant.
Now, odds are under this senerio the judge will not find bad faith on your part, just ignorance of the law.
But, to make sure where you sit, what was the date the tenant said they were vacating the property and what date did they inform you where to send the security deposit or how to refund it, and what was the date you acceptedthat they vacated the premise?
But, to make sure where you sit, what was the date the tenant said they were vacating the property and what date did they inform you where to send the security deposit or how to refund it, and what was the date you acceptedthat they vacated the premise?
She informed me by phone sometime in March (don't remember exact date since it wasn't written) that they bought a house and that they'd be moving. She then asked if she'd be liable for the June payment. I informed her that as stated in the renewal, I'd be keeping the deposit. Upon some back and forth (again, on the phone), I said they're OK as long they're out by May, and I can get it rented out in June.
Well, as of May 31st, their stuff was still in there, and didn't fully move out until June 1st. She texted me the new address on May 31st, but we didn't really discuss the deposit that day. On May31st, the day they were supposed to be out, I did a walk through and pointed out all that was wrong, including the cleaning. She said she'd have it done. In the end it wasn't done, and a new tenant chose not to move in because the place was still dirty. So, sounds like I was naive, and the informal approach I took to letting her break the lease has come back to bite me.
Yeah, sorry. The date the court will most likely use will be June 2nd as the start of the stop watch. Since the tenant apparently knows the law, you may want to avoid a hassle and also include the required interest from the day they gave you the deposit. Sounds like a person who may be wringing their hands waiting for you to mess up the interest part so they can collect the $500 penalty.
Yeah, sorry. The date the court will most likely use will be June 2nd as the start of the stop watch. Since the tenant apparently knows the law, you may want to avoid a hassle and also include the required interest from the day they gave you the deposit. Sounds like a person who may be wringing their hands waiting for you to mess up the interest part so they can collect the $500 penalty.
Thank you all for your help on this. I just sent her an e-mail to conclude all this, and I'm at peace with it.
What I essentially said was that I let her out of her lease in good faith because we were on good, friendly terms. If I were being a you-know-what, I could have insisted she conclude the lease, and demand the last month's payment. Once they moved out, I started working to get the house rented, and figured I'd discuss the deposit issue with her at a later date. Informally, since we had been so informal up until now, and we had agreed that I needed to get the place rented for them to be fully in the clear.
I said, she took advantage of my naivete, and that I'm now convinced she was waiting for me to miss that 3-week deadline, so she could demand the full deposit back (even though I had been naive enough to think we could settle it informally). I concluded by saying she'd be getting her deposit back next week, and to let me know if she planned on pursuing further money.
Probably not advisable, I know, but she had to have a piece of my mind before sending that check
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
