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Old 10-26-2013, 09:19 AM
 
Location: Austin, TX
16,787 posts, read 48,956,424 times
Reputation: 9478

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I would not wait for the next time they clog the sewer line, charge them for the previous times they had to be cleaned out now, they will learn the lesson immediately.
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Old 10-26-2013, 12:41 PM
 
2,687 posts, read 7,396,908 times
Reputation: 4214
Question Lol...

[quote=Sawdustmaker;31963891]What did you miss?

It's a 4 unit property with 2 units each sharing two sewer lines.

That is how I HAVE BEEN WRITING IT since April, when we purchased the property.

What's your next question?

Did you miss my post on how ALL are responsible for clearing the porch and sidewalk of snow? I don't care who does it. If they don't they ALL get fined.

It's in the lease the signed and agreed to, and quite normal.

Same as shared utilities.

They agree to split water bills, they agree to split sewage bills.

If one chick can't figure out how to NOT flush a tampon. Not my problem.

I'm sure I said somewhere that my lease was written by a lawyer who is also a LL in the same city. In the lease, it clearly states that you are responsible for your housemates actions or inactions. Someone breaks a railing on the porch? No one fesses up? THEY ALL GET CHARGED. It's a shared porch. Someone has a party in the backyard and lights a tree on fire that sets the detached garage roof on fire and no one fesses up? THEY ALL GET CHARGED. Someone flushes a tampon down the potty and it clogs up the sewage line and no one claims the tampons with the blue pull string? THEY ALL GET CHARGED.



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oh my...are you sure you arent' the one clogging the lines? Nice attitude, lady.
koale
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Old 10-26-2013, 05:53 PM
 
Location: Silicon Valley
18,813 posts, read 32,386,974 times
Reputation: 38573
If these are 4 different leases, I don't see how you can hold them all responsible. I'm surprised you find tenants willing to share responsibility with strangers to clean the porch, share water usage, etc., etc. I'd never go for it.

Regardless, if they were to sue you for billing them all, I don't see a judge allowing it. Unless your 4 leases all agree to be responsible for their neighbors damage. And even then, I don't see a judge enforcing that.

Sorry for the plumbing issues, but your apt building has a weird setup and I think legally, it's on you to deal with plumbing issues, since you can't prove who the culprit is.

I suggest you raise the rents when you can, to cover the plumbing bills.
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Old 10-26-2013, 08:04 PM
 
10,181 posts, read 10,232,521 times
Reputation: 9252
Looks like I have some posts to read, but I'm going to start here NMSFM!

Quote:
Originally Posted by NoMoreSnowForMe View Post
If these are 4 different leases, I don't see how you can hold them all responsible. I'm surprised you find tenants willing to share responsibility with strangers to clean the porch, share water usage, etc., etc. I'd never go for it.
You have to understand that this isn't an apartment complex.

The property is in a college town/small city and everything I've stated is par for the course with respect to how it "is". The city allows one water meter per property (unless and of course it's new construction) and the water/sewer has to be in to the LLs name. The gas/electric provider is not provided by the city and and each unit can (and in my case for all of my properties DOES) have it's own meter. We have a separate LL meter for the washer/dryers in the basement, and a separate LL electric meter for the common areas. Which we pay for and no questions asked.

Now this particular property is really 2 two-family properties that just happen to be attached. Two separate entry ways, two separate driveways. It's a corner lot, so one half has one address and one driveway and the other half has its own. It sounds convoluted to say the least, but that's the way it is.

As far as having to remove snow within 24 hours from the porch and sidewalk, it's the same as having to take care of the lawn if you rent a house and you agree to do it. We provide two snow shovels per apt and plenty of rock salt. It's up to the tenants to work it out. Just like the parking issues in the properties that have only one driveway. They manage to figure that out. If no one clears the snow? No my problem. The city sends out its ticket masters 24 hours and one second after a snow fall. If it's not cleared, you get a fine. The don't give you time to remedy.

Almost the same with the yard. If flyers or trash collect in the yard and no one picks it up, the city will send me a summons and you get about 7 days to clean it up or you WILL get fined.

Now in my lease it specifically states that tenants are responsible for snow removal within 24 hours and keeping the lawns free of trash. If they don't, any fine received will be passed on to them. When I get a summons for trash in the yard? I email all tenants and call the representative from each unit to let them know that the yard needs to be cleaned up. Bend at the waist and pick the trash up that you walk by every day and is in the "yard" that you agreed to keep "clean and free of garbage".

Keeping in mind this is not a complex.

Quote:
Regardless, if they were to sue you for billing them all, I don't see a judge allowing it. Unless your 4 leases all agree to be responsible for their neighbors damage. And even then, I don't see a judge enforcing that.
This is what I don't understand what others don't get. It's in the lease, and the tenants agreed to the terms. I've never had a problem, and I don't know any other LL who has. My lease was written by a lawyer and in the past 6-ish years since I've had this particular lease I've had several prospective tenants ask for a copy up front because Mom/Dad/Uncle/Aunt/Grandma/Grandpa/SIL/BIL are a lawyer and want to review it BEFORE they sign. NEVER had anyone refuse to sign or question anything. One tenant's legal eagle relative asked me if he could use MY lease for his properties in another town. It's just a lease, but it's quite a CYA lease, so of course I said yes. Thought it was nice of him to ask when he really didn't have to.


Quote:
Sorry for the plumbing issues, but your apt building has a weird setup and I think legally, it's on you to deal with plumbing issues, since you can't prove who the culprit is.
It sounds weird, but it's really 2 two family dwellings that are conjoined. It was built that way back in the day.

It's fine because the tenants are told upfront and everything is stated very clearly in the lease that they signed.

Quote:
I suggest you raise the rents when you can, to cover the plumbing bills.
Rent can only be raised 2% for 2014 (increases are regulated by the city). If I have to pay a minimum of $400 once (or 2x) a month because no one follows the lease....? That's why the clause is in the lease.

However, I was perusing the LL/Tenant laws in my state today for another issue and I ran across the 2010 revised state laws. If tenants agree to co-habitate in a property where the lease clearly states that utilities and maintenance (not flushing tampons or any other foreign object down the potty) of said utilities and "the property" are shared amongst all tenants/units (and flushing foreign objects was mentioned when the example given was about "heat"- and only one unit having control of the thermostat): the lease that they signed stands and the tenants will have to figure it out amongst themselves as to who owes whom what/why and how much.

Last edited by Informed Info; 10-26-2013 at 08:43 PM.. Reason: Grammar.
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Old 10-26-2013, 08:10 PM
 
10,181 posts, read 10,232,521 times
Reputation: 9252
[quote=Koale;31969006]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sawdustmaker View Post
What did you miss?

It's a 4 unit property with 2 units each sharing two sewer lines.

That is how I HAVE BEEN WRITING IT since April, when we purchased the property.

What's your next question?

Did you miss my post on how ALL are responsible for clearing the porch and sidewalk of snow? I don't care who does it. If they don't they ALL get fined.

It's in the lease the signed and agreed to, and quite normal.

Same as shared utilities.

They agree to split water bills, they agree to split sewage bills.

If one chick can't figure out how to NOT flush a tampon. Not my problem.

I'm sure I said somewhere that my lease was written by a lawyer who is also a LL in the same city. In the lease, it clearly states that you are responsible for your housemates actions or inactions. Someone breaks a railing on the porch? No one fesses up? THEY ALL GET CHARGED. It's a shared porch. Someone has a party in the backyard and lights a tree on fire that sets the detached garage roof on fire and no one fesses up? THEY ALL GET CHARGED. Someone flushes a tampon down the potty and it clogs up the sewage line and no one claims the tampons with the blue pull string? THEY ALL GET CHARGED.



Next?


oh my...are you sure you arent' the one clogging the lines? Nice attitude, lady.
koale
I don't live there. More than sure.

My 'tude is in line when I have to respond to folks who have no clue about what they think they do have a clue about.
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Old 10-26-2013, 08:13 PM
 
10,181 posts, read 10,232,521 times
Reputation: 9252
Quote:
Originally Posted by CptnRn View Post
I would not wait for the next time they clog the sewer line, charge them for the previous times they had to be cleaned out now, they will learn the lesson immediately.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Electrician4you View Post
If they all agreed to share the utilities, and be responsible for any damage caused by the tenants then charge them all .25% of the total bill. I bet. The guilty party ends up reimbursing the rest but that's their problem. You may also get tenants who were not responsible to move out because they don't want to pay for damage that wasn't their fault. But they signed and agreed to the lease terms.

I would send them a itemized bill with each family/lease signer portion to be paid by x date and I would also send a letter emphasizing the lease terms and they signed it.
Exactly.

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Old 10-26-2013, 08:29 PM
 
13,113 posts, read 20,861,676 times
Reputation: 21318
What state is this in?
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Old 10-26-2013, 08:39 PM
 
10,181 posts, read 10,232,521 times
Reputation: 9252
[quote=Rabrrita;31964041]I could care less what you wrote 1 year, 1 month or 1 day ago! This is what you wrote today for this topic:

That translates in traditional building language as a duplex that each had a sewer line that was converted to a fourplex still using that same 2 sewer lines. hence 2 units sharing 1 line with a guilty and inncocent party.
Quote:

It's 2 two families that are attached. Corner lot. 2 driveways, 2 basements, 2 separate addresses - one entry is on one street, the other is on another. I didn't make it that way. The thing was built in the early 1900's. Not my issue that it is the way it is.

Quote:
I also could care less what your attorney said becaue unless your located outside the USA, there isn't a state that will allow a repair from neglect and was not the result of the tenant being asked to forced upon an innocent tenant. You can charge them shared usages, but not damages unless its everyone sharing in the damages that they all contributed towards. You need to ask that "attorney" what is the legal difference between cost, usages, repairs and damages (might also want to see his law license).
Huh?

[quote}Now, if as your changing the setup and this is actually a duplex that is rented as a duplex and thre are only TWO units each with their own line (that means the 4 family mention was just nonsense you threw in for no legitimate reason), I can see how all the persons in a single SHARED unit would be responsible.
Who cares?

There are two units in each side that is divided by a brick wall (how they did it back in the day). Separate basements, separate utilities, separate driveways, separate entry ways/porches, separate bills for EACH SIDE when it comes to water/sewer (as a collective bill per side) but each unit has it's own electric/gas/heat bill.

It's a more than a 2 unit property in the eyes of the bank because the deed says so and that's how it goes. Commercial mortgage vs. conventional. 25% down vs. 20% or less down. No question about it. It's a 4 family that was a 2 family that was already divided vertically, just ended up being horizontally divided somewhere along the line. Originally a duplex that got cut up.

Why is this an issue for you?

Last edited by Informed Info; 10-26-2013 at 08:46 PM.. Reason: had to clarify
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Old 10-26-2013, 08:41 PM
 
10,181 posts, read 10,232,521 times
Reputation: 9252
Quote:
Originally Posted by Galaxie Girl View Post
I see you now removed your snarky response to me about "leaving this to the adults." That was classy and professional.
I didn't mean to delete that. My bad.

Quote:
And I stick with my agreement with Rabrrita - if your state and local laws allow you to charge a tenant for something another tenant did, and your conscience lets you, then do it.
Great. Now we're all on the same page.

Quote:
Also, since you now made it abundantly clear that each sewer line is shared by two units, stop calling them housemates. Housemates share a unit. Tenants share a building, but live in separate units. That terminology is what confused people here.
Lease says otherwise. Thanks for playing!
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Old 10-27-2013, 09:49 AM
 
Location: Silicon Valley
18,813 posts, read 32,386,974 times
Reputation: 38573
I don't see how it matters if this is a complex or not. Isn't it four separate units? Four separate leases?
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