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One of the properties we rent to students had no one staying in it from a few days before Christmas until tonight. Everyone cleared out for break.
2nd floor tenants came back this evening and sent me a text stating that they have no water. I asked if they turned the heat off. They did. I asked them to go in to the basement and see if there were any pipes leaking that they could see. There was. Coming out full blast.
Called the plumber to see if he could meet my husband at the property. They find one split pipe in one of the crawl spaces in the basement, which of course has a dirt floor (just the crawl) that is now a mud floor. The flow of the water brought the mud from the crawl space down the wall of the opening and onto the cement floor of the rest of the basement.
1st floor tenants aren't home (two went home to Ca, one went out of the country), husband keys in, checks everything. Water is leaking out of the shower on/off temp setting unit, water is dripping under the kitchen sink, toilets are half frozen. Checks the thermostat and these genius' also turned their heat off - and this is what I don't understand: they ASKED before they left for break if they should and I told them in no uncertain terms that they should NOT and that the lease specifically states that the heat remains set to 62F at all times. I thanked them for ASKING first, and I remember thinking "that could have been an issue".
So anyway, the plumber's fee for a Sunday night emergency is $150 (just to show up). He fixed the split pipe in the crawl space, which will be and additional charge, and has to come back tomorrow to fix what he is assuming for right now are split/cracked/pipes in the shower & under the sink (that can't be seen). The water has been turned off, and the 2nd floor guys shown how to turn it on and off (which they forgot since being shown in Sept) if they need it for any reason tonight.
Here's the problem, I don't know who to charge for this because the plumber said that had the 1st floor tenants NOT turned their heat off that this never would have happened even if the 2nd floor tenants did shut their heat off. Does that sound right?
Given how toasty the other very separate basement (the property is set up like a duplex) for the other two units was, I don't know if I believe that pipes would have frozen and split had the 2nd floor ALSO not have turned their heat off. The furnace would have had to keep up (we had sub zero temps for a few nights, and some sub zero days with wind chill factored in) with the temp setting on the 2nd floor and help keep the basement warm, no?
You charge the first floor unit because you said the lease states that the temp must be set to 62 degrees. They turned it off, violating the lease. .
What does the lease say for the second floor unit ? If the lease also says that the heat must be kept on, then you also charge them too as they also turned off the heat.
What the plumber is trying to say is that hot air rises. That means if the first floor unit was kept heated, enough heat might have traveled to the second floor to maybe prevent frozen pipes up there. However, there is not guarantee of that, it's just a " maybe".
I wouldn't worry about what the plumber is saying. I'd rely what wording is in those leases as far as keeping temps set.
Agree with Willow Wind. Damage occurred because heat was turned off. Both turned off their heat, knowing they shouldn't. Both get charged. Split the bill between them.
Not only is it in the lease, but you had a conversation with them before they left in which you reiterated they were not to turn it off, they agreed not to, then did anyway.
Sounds like the pipes froze below the first floor? Maybe that's why the plumber said the 2nd floor had nothing to do with it. That would make sense.
On the other hand, if the 2nd floor had at least left their water running, it may also have prevented the pipes from freezing.
Charge them both.
What a pain. I so never want to live where pipes freeze. Ever. Again.
I would get a written statement from the plumber, charge the tenant who he says is to blame.
Thanks, I will ask him to give his professional opinion in writing, if not for anything else but just to have.
Quote:
Originally Posted by willow wind
You charge the first floor unit because you said the lease states that the temp must be set to 62 degrees. They turned it off, violating the lease. .
What does the lease say for the second floor unit ? If the lease also says that the heat must be kept on, then you also charge them too as they also turned off the heat.
What the plumber is trying to say is that hot air rises. That means if the first floor unit was kept heated, enough heat might have traveled to the second floor to maybe prevent frozen pipes up there. However, there is not guarantee of that, it's just a " maybe".
I wouldn't worry about what the plumber is saying. I'd rely what wording is in those leases as far as keeping temps set.
Each individual lease says the same about keeping the temp for heat set at 62F. No matter if the unit is on the 1st, 2nd or 3rd floor.
That's what I was thinking. They both turned the heat off - a bunch of "what ifs" can't be proven and I'm not going to test it out.
Whoever was supposed to keep the heat on but didn't should be charged. Truthfully if you want the heat on at all times then you need to get thermostats that are programmable or keep them under lock and key. You can always place the tamper proof boxes designed strictly for thermostat over the thermostat.
Agree with Willow Wind. Damage occurred because heat was turned off. Both turned off their heat, knowing they shouldn't. Both get charged. Split the bill between them.
Not only is it in the lease, but you had a conversation with them before they left in which you reiterated they were not to turn it off, they agreed not to, then did anyway.
Sounds like the pipes froze below the first floor? Maybe that's why the plumber said the 2nd floor had nothing to do with it. That would make sense.
On the other hand, if the 2nd floor had at least left their water running, it may also have prevented the pipes from freezing.
Charge them both.
What a pain. I so never want to live where pipes freeze. Ever. Again.
Don't think I wasn't thinking of you when we got 10 inches of snow dumped on us between this past Thursday night and Friday morning! Today got "hot" compared to 20F days, so the snow is melting, but the ground is still freezing cold and there is black ice everywhere.
A pipe did freeze & split in the basement and apparently inside the 1st floor unit as well. Or maybe (said the plumber) a rubber something or other that might have frozen and cracked in the shower on/off unit - he's pretty sure we might have another split pipe causing the leak under the kitchen sink. I do know that he said we're lucky the toilet didn't crack!
I agree, I think the bill should be split between the two units for turning the heat OFF. My husband is erring on the side of the plumber, and I didn't agree, so this is why I asked.
I would split the bill between the two and not say anything about who the plumber is assigning blame to. Both units will try to blame the other, but they seem equally at fault.
When I was renting an apartment in college I had roommates who did the same thing. I would turn the heat back on if I was the last one to leave for break, but that didn't always happen and they would be furious if they found out. They simply INSISTED the heat be turned off and they didn't care that the property manager sent out notices reminding us we weren't allowed to turn the heat off.
Whoever was supposed to keep the heat on but didn't should be charged. Truthfully if you want the heat on at all times then you need to get thermostats that are programmable or keep them under lock and key. You can always place the tamper proof boxes designed strictly for thermostat over the thermostat.
I agree.
I hear you about the thermostat, but I don't pay for their heat. They do, and I don't want to control the temp they are comfortable living with.
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