Sticky Situation regarding deposit - need advice (tenant, rental property, security deposit)

[MovedOut]

We moved out on January 31st, today is February 26th and we still haven't received our $3500 deposit back or any statement of charges.

The background information:

On January 1st our landlords gave us notice they were selling the house. We had lived there two years, great relationship, rent paid on time. The notice was a 60 day notice and in it she said they would be flexible if we found a house earlier or if we hadn't found one by the time they put the house on the market. She said she hoped to return our full deposit and get it to us quickly.

We scrambled for the next few weeks trying to find a place. Our landlord provided us with a glowing reference letter. We found a home on January 20th and they would only select us out of the other 25 applicants if we were willing to move that Friday (the 24th). I called our landlord and let her know, asked if it was ok to be out by the 31st (as stated in her letter) and she agreed.

We scrambled over the next 4 days to pack up and move a 3 bedroom home.

On January 23rd landlord sent an email detailing the items she left behind when renting to us and asking that we make sure to return. She also stated she was hoping to give us back our full deposit. She stated she would be out of town from January 30th until February 2nd and would be doing the inspection on February 3rd and that we were welcome to be present. I did not receive her email because our internet wasn't hooked up at the new house yet.

On January 29th landlord sent another email stating neighbors reported we are living in our new house already, she was walking the dog past our house and noted that the weeding needed to be done. Let us know if we wanted someone to do it she had someone and would deduct from our deposit.

I replied on the 29th letting her know that we planned to be out on the 31st and that we had cleaners scheduled to come and that I would let her know if my husband had time to weed.

The following week we paid to have the house cleaned and left it in great condition. My husband did the weeding and we were out by the 31st with the house cleaned. I did not contact her because she was out of town.

On February 2nd, (the day she was to return) I sent her a message letting her know that we were out, the weeding was done and that my husband was available to walk through the home with her the following day (the 3rd which she stated was the day she could do walk through) and to email or call my husband directly (and I left his number).

We never heard from her. I called and left a message and she didn't respond. On February 13th I received an email from her stating the screens and the tracks of the windows were dirty and that we didn't clean the windows properly, the screens and tracks were dirty. She said she paid $170 before we moved in to have them cleaned and we could come and clean at her convenience or we would be charged. It wasn't a friendly email. On February 15th I received another email (not too friendly again) stating we could also be cleaning the blinds if we decided to come clean at her convenience because "it is obvious they were not cleaned by the dirt and grime on them". We did hire someone to clean. We didn't check the work. In the meantime I had come down with the flu and was sick in bed. When I discovered her email, I wrote her back on February 15th letting her know that I was in bed with the flu, that I hadn't been checking email, that we hired someone to clean and they obviously didn't do a good job on the windows, that I could tell she was upset, that I was upset too and said to go ahead and deduct the window cleaning from the deposit. I said to please contact my husband directly since I was sick and left his number again.

My husband called her on Monday, February 24th asking for the deposit to be returned, left our address and his number again. She still has not contacted us.

Here's my question:

I know that the landlord has 21 days to return your deposit with an itemized statement of charges. However, since we didn't follow the traditional move out process, by her suggestion and approval of 30 days, I'm wondering if the law still applies?

She gave us 60 day notice, we moved out within 30 days and it's now been 26 days and we haven't received our deposit back.

Any advice for us?

Thanks!

[CptnRn]

I know that the landlord has 21 days to return your deposit

Verify that your state law requires 21 days, many require 30. In many states, if the time has run out, then the landlord looses any rights to keep your deposit. If that is the case you should send a certified letter demanding the return of your deposit and pointing out that there could be penalties for the landlord if they do not do so.

[MovedOut]

Thanks, it is 21 days - we are in California.

[MovedOut]

So does the absence of official "30" day notice make this whole thing null and void and not apply now? We need to know so we can get whatever portion of our deposit back that we can.

Thanks!

[NY Annie]

Do you have anything in writing to show the landlord agreed to the very short notice of you vacating - yes, e-mail counts.

The absence of 30 day notice doesn't automatically negate the return of deposit in itself; assuming the landlord agreed.

[CptnRn]

Originally Posted by MovedOut

Thanks, it is 21 days - we are in California.

California Tenants - California Department of Consumer Affairs

[CptnRn]

On January 1st our landlords gave us notice they were selling the house. We had lived there two years, great relationship, rent paid on time. The notice was a 60 day notice and in it she said they would be flexible if we found a house earlier or if we hadn't found one by the time they put the house on the market. She said she hoped to return our full deposit and get it to us quickly.

Since you have that in writing I'm pretty sure you are covered.

[MovedOut]

Thank you, yes it is all in writing. I appreciate your help and advice!

[NoMoreSnowForMe]

MovedOut,

CA law is designed to give tenants the opportunity to get their full deposits back. Your landlady didn't follow the law, so she loses all rights to your deposit. Additionally, you can get twice the deposit in addition to your deposit as punitive damages, if the judge decides she withheld your deposit in bad faith.

First, she should have given you a written notice to your right to a pre-move-out inspection when she gave you your 60 days notice. The notice regarding your right to an initial inspection is required to include the actual wording of the law regarding your rights. Doesn't sound like she did this. Not doing this, means she forfeits any right to the security deposit.

The pre-move-out inspection is not to happen any sooner than 14 days before your move-out. Even though you moved quickly, your LL still had time to do a pre-move-out inspection. You gave her notice on the 20th, and she didn't leave town until the 30th. I don't see that she has any excuse not to have done the pre-move-out inspection BEFORE you vacated, giving you a list of what needed to be done, and leaving you enough time to do it. That's what she was supposed to do by law.

During a pre-move-out inspection, she would have been required to give you a written list of everything that needed to be done in order to get your full deposit back. She can only ask for damages beyond normal wear and tear to be fixed. The only time she can deduct for damages for things that weren't on that list, is if they were hidden during the inspection (under the couch, for instance) or happened after the inspection.

Right there, she loses all right to any deductions from your security deposit.

I think that's the end of the story right there. I've helped my daughter prepare for small claims court for exactly this same thing in CA, and she won both times because the landlord didn't do the proper things regarding the pre-move-out inspection.

Plus, she has only 21 day from the day you VACATE the premises to return your deposit and/or a written itemization. That would have been Feb 21.

So, she's 0 for 2. You will win in small claims court, hands down.

Doesn't matter that she scheduled an inspection for Feb 3rd, or that she didn't notice the blinds, yatta yatta...none of it matters. It only matters that she didn't follow the law regarding pre-move-out inspection rules and the 21 day return of deposit and/or deductions.

So, your next step is to write her a letter stating that she must give you your full deposit by x date, or you will file a claim in small claims court. Then do it and also ask for your court costs. You can probably file online.

If you get a judgment and the landlord doesn't pay you, you can put a lien on that rental property, and they can't sell it until the lien is paid.

So, how about a letter like this:

Dear Landlady:

As you know, we have requested our deposit to be returned, and you have not responded nor send our deposit within the 21 days allowed by California law. When a landlord fails to send the deposit and/or an itemization of deductions, including receipts, within 21 days, the landlord forfeits any claim to the deposit. This was decided in the California Supreme Court case of Granberry v. Islay Investments in 1995.

Additionally, you did not give us written notice of our right to an initial pre-move-out inspection as required by California Civil Code Section 1950.5(f).

You gave us a 60 day notice to vacate on January 1, 2014, and agreed that if we were to find a new place within that 60 days, you would be willing to work with us on a move-out date. We gave you notice on January 20th that we could vacate on January 31st. You agreed to this date to terminate our lease.

You had, therefore, plenty of time to 1) give us a written notice of our right to an initial pre-move-out inspection, and you would have had time to do the initial inspection during those eleven days from January 20th to January 31st.

The initial inspection is designed by law, so that tenants have the opportunity to get their full deposits back. You did not give us that option. Regardless, we hired professional cleaners and also did the weeding that you requested be done before we vacated.

However, again, because you did not give us the option of an initial inspection, you lose your right to any of the deposit.

The law also allows for punitive damages in the amount of twice the deposit, in addition to actual damages, for retaining the deposit in bad faith.

Therefore, we are demanding that you return our full deposit to us by March 7, 2014. If you do not return the deposit in full, we intend to sue you in small claims court. We will ask for the maximum punitive damages and our court costs to be awarded in addition to our full deposit.

As the law is on our side, we fully expect to win in court. Please be advised that if we win, there will be a judgment against you. If you do not pay the judgment, we will put a lien on your property, which will likely be required to be paid before you can sell the property.

We hope to avoid court, and hope that you can see that it is only fair that you simply return our deposit. By law, it is due to us, regardless of the condition we left it in. But, as we had it professionally cleaned and weeded the yard as you asked, it truly is only fair that you simply return our deposit.

Sincerely,

You
Your new address


If you go to court, go ahead and print out the law, in the off-chance you get a new judge (they're usually lawyers who do small claims court part-time) who isn't familiar with landlord-tenant law. You might want to also attach it to your demand letter to your landlady.

Here's the law:

http://housing.ucsc.edu/cro/pdf/CCC_...y-deposits.pdf

Here are some explanations in lay terms:

CA Civil Code `1950.5(l) - treble damages/penalty for bad faith retention of security; applies to all residential rentals in CA. - Avvo.com

http://www.courts.ca.gov/partners/do...Inspection.pdf

California Tenants - California Department of Consumer Affairs

[Zelva]

THANK YOU NoMoreSnow!!! This is soooooo helpful!!

I likely owe you a legal services fee!! Maybe I can send you some 'CD-coin'.

(I'm a tenant in CA, with a PM who has complaints about not returning deposits! I'm printing your post for my file!!)