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Old 07-05-2014, 03:26 PM
 
Location: SoCal
14,530 posts, read 20,054,132 times
Reputation: 10539

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Quote:
Originally Posted by lvoc View Post
Pay them for the cleaning and move on. Many states allow an admin fee or whatever as long as it is clearly labeled non-refundable. And without a security deposit as appears the case here I expect you are done for in small claims court.
I've seen so many small claims court cases dismissed or ruled one way or the other due to lack of documentation on either of the participants or both. Most people do not understand that small claims court cases are generally decided based upon documentation or lack thereof. Good documentation wins small court cases -- if you are in the right.
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Old 07-05-2014, 03:28 PM
 
123 posts, read 520,191 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bentlebee View Post
Many states don't allow non refundable security deposits.

if it was holding money than it is different but they way we do it is that at first it is holding money and not refundable but upon move in it will become a regular security deposit.

It seems they don't even know what they charged.

Since everything was done so unclear it is just as unclear if the cleaning money can be the non refundable security deposit and therefore it is hard to answer your question.
I just sent her a message trying to clarify. I didn't want to say that I found the lease with it in there without getting other opinions since it is so vague.
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Old 07-05-2014, 03:31 PM
 
Location: SoCal
14,530 posts, read 20,054,132 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by displacedmisplaced View Post
I just sent her a message trying to clarify. I didn't want to say that I found the lease with it in there without getting other opinions since it is so vague.
Your answer is in your contract!
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Old 07-05-2014, 03:58 PM
 
123 posts, read 520,191 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lovehound View Post
Well it says the $250 is not refundable so it's not refundable. You aren't going to get it back. -- EDIT: subject to what the two posts above mine said. And what kind of deposit is it anyway? It doesn't say! So is it security deposit? Cleaning deposit? Radioactive waste disposal deposit? Who knows?

Depending on any language in the rental contract regarding your obligations to clean the property, read that part to see if you have any responsibility. Quote it if you want some help, I'm not a lawyer but I'm good at contracts.

And since move out was June 30th, I presume you are out, so going back and fixing it is too late. I presume you no longer have keys or access.

Whether the landlord can charge you $300 depends on what language was in the contract regarding your obligations to clean after moving.

Actually he can charge you anything he wants. The question is whether he can make it stick, and the only way he can do that now is either you volunteer to pay it or see if he sues you in small claims court. Again, read the language in the contract regarding your obligation to clean after move out.

And finally, he can't just traipse into court and say "They owe me $300 because they left a dirty apartment" and expect to win his case. First of all, he has to document what your apartment looked like after you moved out. Then he has to provide receipts for the cleaning it required, and the amount of the receipts is all he can collect even if he is in the right.

Finally, you missed a good bet. You should have shot your apartment with your smart phone, both stills and video, before you moved out. Even better if you shot it before you moved in too.

So I'd love to see what your contract says about your obligations to clean it. Meanwhile I think your best bet is to not leave a forwarding address, don't answer his calls, don't pay the money, and hope he gives up and goes away.

I don't want it back, honestly. I just don't want them to charge us anymore money which is what they were saying they were going to do. The whole time we lived there they were either really flaky or pretending to be. They would always forget about things, act like something didn't happen if it did, act like something happened if it didn't, didn't understand about things unless we really spelled it out for them, were very inconsiderate about things. If I told you about all the crazy incidences with them you would think I was joking. We didn't realize it until we moved in how they were. And honestly when we moved in we were coming off of a prior job loss that wreaked havoc with our credit and were lucky to get a place at that time. That's why I didn't realize about the wording with the deposits. And there isn't anything specifically about cleaning in the lease.

I already gave them our forwarding address because we were having a problem with the mailbox at new house and they offered to forward our mail. The female owner has been texting with me about dropping off the keys, getting water bill, etc. and that's where this whole thing was mentioned. I feel like if I don't have communication with her it will be worse. I want them to at least know I am looking into it and that I'm not going to be taken advantage of like they may think they can do. I don't even want to think about court. I would rather pay the amount then incur costs for that. But really, I don't want to pay anything else to them. Especially considering the way we had to move, since they decided to bring in people who would pay a significant amount more than we were. (They literally already had someone lined up before they even told us) We were good tenants who would communicate well with them, fix things for them, got along well with the neighbors, etc. The neighbors there even complained about them on numerous occasions and were shocked the amount they were going to get from the next people for the house. None of this with the deposit thing surprises me but it really is disappointing since we had to pay an arm and a leg to move and not of our own volition.
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Old 07-05-2014, 10:54 PM
 
Location: SoCal
14,530 posts, read 20,054,132 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by displacedmisplaced View Post
I don't want it back, honestly. I just don't want them to charge us anymore money which is what they were saying they were going to do..
So fine, tell us what the cleaning language said.

Last edited by Ultrarunner; 07-06-2014 at 10:01 AM..
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Old 07-05-2014, 11:50 PM
 
123 posts, read 520,191 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lovehound View Post
So fine, tell us what the cleaning language said.
Like I said, I wrote exactly what the lease states regarding the amount, what it states it's for (which it doesn't), and the fact that nothing specifically states anything about cleaning. I can't make it have details that aren't there. I'm a very detailed person so I provide details. There's nothing to hide on my part otherwise I wouldn't even be asking.

To tell me to give the details or hide doesn't even make sense and is just rude for no reason. I gave the details. I'm asking what all of it means and where we stand based on those details that I have. If you don't know, just say it and move on. You are not required to be on this thread, and it doesn't sound like you enjoy being on it. You act like I'm just annoying you and how dare I ask you. You don't have to answer!

Generally, I'm a very tactful person, have been the whole time here, and appreciate the same respect back. It's not easy for people to come on these kinds of things despite how anonymous it may be, spilling their life out just to get some needed guidance. So it really doesn't help when someone, who has no stake in any of it, acts like they are against someone instead of just being neutral and giving an answer. It certainly doesn't help the already sucky situation.

Last edited by Ultrarunner; 07-06-2014 at 10:02 AM..
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Old 07-06-2014, 05:41 AM
 
Location: St Thomas, US Virgin Islands
24,665 posts, read 69,567,744 times
Reputation: 26727
If they're simply going to use that non refundable deposit to cover the cleaning costs then of course just let it go. They can't now claim a new "deposit" from you (it seems they have no clue how to do business or write a comprehensive lease) but they can go after you in small claims court if they have proof that the cleaning and/or any damages were beyond normal wear and tear.

Hopefully you've read your state landlord tenant laws as suggested and, if the situation escalates, then best advice is to take all your paperwork to a real estate attorney and let them advise you. An initial consultation won't cost you an arm and a leg.

A basic understanding of your landlord tenant laws will go a long way in avoiding this kind of situation. Good luck!
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Old 07-07-2014, 12:17 AM
 
123 posts, read 520,191 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by STT Resident View Post
If they're simply going to use that non refundable deposit to cover the cleaning costs then of course just let it go.
Not that I want to keep beating this dead horse, although I think it's just wishful thinking that this subject was dead, but that is the problem; I want them to use that non-refundable deposit to cover the cost of cleaning and but they aren't.

They were saying that they want a new amount of $300 for them to clean. That is the same amount we paid them when we moved in. The lease states that that was non-refundable but does not state specifically what it was for. From what I take away from here and another place online I asked is that the non-refundable payment made upon move in would most likely be a cleaning fee. If that is the case, I wouldn't want to pay an additional $300 when they should pull it from what we gave them the first time. If that wasn't a cleaning fee and it was non-refundable, what else would it be? That's what is not clear and vague in the lease and all they are saying is "where does it state in the lease that you paid a non-refundable cleaning fee?" They know they left it vague on purpose, taking advantage of our situation, and because we can't afford to shell out that extra money at this time, I want to try to not let them take it from us so easily like that.

I have looked into tenant's rights even in the past on certain issues and I cannot find something that specifically touches on vagueness like that, maybe I'm missing something.
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Old 07-07-2014, 05:56 AM
 
Location: St Thomas, US Virgin Islands
24,665 posts, read 69,567,744 times
Reputation: 26727
Quote:
Originally Posted by displacedmisplaced View Post
The lease states that that was non-refundable but does not state specifically what it was for.
Send them a return receipt certified letter asking them exactly what the non-refundable deposit of $300 was for. If they refuse to tell you, contact an attorney or Legal Aid in your area to see whether or not it's legal for them to charge you an unspecified non refundable deposit. I can find nothing in WA landlord tenant laws which addresses an unspecified non refundable deposit and rather think that this in itself is illegal in WA or anywhere else. All deposits, refundable or non refundable have to be properly documented and specified. A security deposit is never legally non refundable without the proper accounting being provided to the tenant along with itemization of deductions and receipts.
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Old 07-07-2014, 01:07 PM
 
Location: SoCal
14,530 posts, read 20,054,132 times
Reputation: 10539
Quote:
Originally Posted by displacedmisplaced View Post
Like I said, I wrote exactly what the lease states regarding the amount, what it states it's for (which it doesn't), and the fact that nothing specifically states anything about cleaning. I can't make it have details that aren't there. I'm a very detailed person so I provide details. There's nothing to hide on my part otherwise I wouldn't even be asking.
I apologize, the misunderstanding was all mine. I did not understand it was an exact quote. It was my lack of comprehension that a lease could be worded so poorly that it does not state what the deposit is for. My own leases divide deposits into refundable and non-refundable categories, are itemized, and states exactly what each deposit is for.

I'm afraid you are stuck with the vagaries of your lease and I have no idea how it will play out.
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