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I just checked my regional building website, and here's what I found:
WHAT PROJECTS NEED A PERMIT?
Construction, installation and replacement of the following projects: Deck (including use of composite materials), hot tub, pool, basement finish, room addition, exterior siding and stucco, porch, sun room (solariums), patio or deck enclosure and roof covering, gazebo, shed of more than 120 square feet, garage, conversion of a garage to a room, electrical work, lawn sprinkling system’s back-flow prevention device, water heater, boiler, furnace, air conditioning system, fireplace (gas, wood or other fuel source), fireplace conversion to gas, wood stove, roofing, and retaining wall 4 feet high or greater.
So now I know that the basement finish AND water heater replacement needed a permit. The flyer I read also said that if work is reported to the building inspector and a permit wasn't obtained, a STOP WORK order will be issued until a permit is obtained. In my case, the property management company, who the owner hired to perform the repairs, is NOT a licensed contractor and can't legally pull a permit in the first place, so if I report them to the city, everything is going to come to a standstill. I definitely don't want that, but as a paying tenant, I need that authority figure to decide that the work is done to satisfy city code and issue a Certificate of Occupancy before I'm willing to move my family back into a home that was unsafe.
I just checked my regional building website, and here's what I found:
WHAT PROJECTS NEED A PERMIT?
Construction, installation and replacement of the following projects: Deck (including use of composite materials), hot tub, pool, basement finish, room addition, exterior siding and stucco, porch, sun room (solariums), patio or deck enclosure and roof covering, gazebo, shed of more than 120 square feet, garage, conversion of a garage to a room, electrical work, lawn sprinkling system’s back-flow prevention device, water heater, boiler, furnace, air conditioning system, fireplace (gas, wood or other fuel source), fireplace conversion to gas, wood stove, roofing, and retaining wall 4 feet high or greater.
So now I know that the basement finish AND water heater replacement needed a permit. The flyer I read also said that if work is reported to the building inspector and a permit wasn't obtained, a STOP WORK order will be issued until a permit is obtained. In my case, the property management company, who the owner hired to perform the repairs, is NOT a licensed contractor and can't legally pull a permit in the first place, so if I report them to the city, everything is going to come to a standstill. I definitely don't want that, but as a paying tenant, I need that authority figure to decide that the work is done to satisfy city code and issue a Certificate of Occupancy before I'm willing to move my family back into a home that was unsafe.
I'm not saying you're in the wrong (I believe you have the right to make sure you're moving back in a safe habitat) but I hope you understand you're opening a HUGE can of worms. For the owners, PMC and "contractor". Not that the contractor matters. If he's doing illegal work its usually not to vide because owners and PMC are looking at cheapest rate. The insurance company just wants it to go away and close the claim out. Just make sure you understand that you are making enemies of these people and they will do everything they can to make you go away. In the sense of get out go elsewhere not were sending Tony Big Nose and Harry the Cat to fit you with cement shoes and see if you can swim.
When a stop work order is issued, usually there are extra fines to go along with it. Cities don't like under the radar work. And understand that this will most likely prolong your stay in a hotel.
Are they holding you liable for rent?
I will definitely send a written reminder on September 1 of my intent to stay and request that they set up a time for me to come in and sign a new lease. That's about all I can do. We'll see what happens!
Why wait - do it now.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Electrician4you
I'm not saying you're in the wrong (I believe you have the right to make sure you're moving back in a safe habitat) but I hope you understand you're opening a HUGE can of worms.
Not to mention that the LL will exercise the option not to renew the lease as of October 1st (if they haven't already decided not to) and nothing at all can be done about that
Yes, I understand I would be opening a huge can of worms, and believe me, that thought has crossed my mind many times. I haven't decided to contact the Regional Building inspector yet. And I may not. The wisest thing, if I'm really trying to protect myself, is to just move at the end of my lease (which means notifying them in 6 days), or talk to an attorney. Unfortunately, it's just a really bad time for moving right now, and I really don't want to leave the house and the neighborhood. Good rentals that accept pets are hard to come by here. And just try to find an attorney in Colorado who will offer a free consultation for a problem with a landlord. They don't exist. All I have available to me is a long-distance number to a voicemail, and some volunteer calls me back with referrals to government agencies with whom I've already spoken, and attorneys who will charge an arm and a leg to tell me what I probably already know....that the laws are too vague for me to protect myself legally.
STT - that's a great idea. If I sign a 2-year lease now, THEN I can call Regional Building and get this thing moving. Ha ha. Just kidding.
Electrician - ha ha on the mobster visual. Got a good laugh, thanks! They're not holding me accountable for rent....yet. I've written the PMC three times prior to and including July 31 with no response as to their process for crediting back what I already paid in July, and how rent is calculated going forward after I'm able to move in, which is also an arbitrary date without a C of O, right?
I don't even mind staying in the hotel a while longer. It's the not knowing that bothers me. I think I'm going to try to find an attorney because at this point, I don't know the next move to make. I could write to the owner and ask if she's still considering firing the property management company for their negligence and incompetence and just renting to me directly, but that doesn't solve my immediate problem of where I'm going to live between now and September 30 if the insurance company decides that the delays are now being caused by something other than the water heater. I just got off the phone with a friend in insurance, and she said I need to ask the adjuster to show me in writing where it says that they get to decide when I move back in. If I ever hear from one, and IF they give me a hard time, that's just what I'll do.
Oy, I have a headache already and it's only 10:00!
Well now my predicament has changed drastically. First, I discovered that the work done in the basement does NOT require a permit since the walls and ceiling didn't have framework replaced, so there's no one to sign off on the repairs. According to my lease, I'm the one responsible for determining the house to be habitable upon lease signing, though it's not clear whether that responsibility is continuous throughout the lease, especially when something like this happens through no fault of my own. I'm going to the house tonight to check it all out and make sure I'M satisfied with the repairs.
The maintenance supervisor with the property management company called a little while ago and said that the water heater passed inspection WITHOUT a drain. So if the new one fails, there's nowhere for the water to go except back into the basement through the floor. Apparently it has something to with the age of the house, so I have a call in to the inspector, just so I can try to understand why everyone, including a master plumber, thought a drain was needed to meet code in the first place and what changed that thinking.
He also said that all of the trim work and baseboards are finished and that he thought we would have been moved back in over the weekend. I explained that since the drain wasn't installed on Friday and nobody had called me about it, I figured it was being done this week sometime, and I wasn't willing to move back in before inspection. It seems like I have no choice now, and I'm out of time to research anything else.
All - thank you so much for all of your feedback and support!
Well now my predicament has changed drastically. First, I discovered that the work done in the basement does NOT require a permit since the walls and ceiling didn't have framework replaced, so there's no one to sign off on the repairs. According to my lease, I'm the one responsible for determining the house to be habitable upon lease signing, though it's not clear whether that responsibility is continuous throughout the lease, especially when something like this happens through no fault of my own. I'm going to the house tonight to check it all out and make sure I'M satisfied with the repairs.
The maintenance supervisor with the property management company called a little while ago and said that the water heater passed inspection WITHOUT a drain. So if the new one fails, there's nowhere for the water to go except back into the basement through the floor. Apparently it has something to with the age of the house, so I have a call in to the inspector, just so I can try to understand why everyone, including a master plumber, thought a drain was needed to meet code in the first place and what changed that thinking.
He also said that all of the trim work and baseboards are finished and that he thought we would have been moved back in over the weekend. I explained that since the drain wasn't installed on Friday and nobody had called me about it, I figured it was being done this week sometime, and I wasn't willing to move back in before inspection. It seems like I have no choice now, and I'm out of time to research anything else.
All - thank you so much for all of your feedback and support!
The new water heater should last at least 7-10 years. You might be overly worried about the water heater needing a drain if it fails because it's highly likley it won't fail while you are still living there unless you plan to be there in 7 years.
The new water heater should last at least 7-10 years. You might be overly worried about the water heater needing a drain if it fails because it's highly likley it won't fail while you are still living there unless you plan to be there in 7 years.
Sware2cod - thanks for posting! I'm sure you're right. I've been borderline paranoid for six weeks, which is a long time to spend worrying about who's trying to screw me. Then when it turned out ok all of a sudden with no notice, I didn't know what to do with myself. I spoke with a city inspector who assured me the water heater does NOT need a drain, and I can get the date of that inspection from the city website for my date of habitability. Yay!
And you're right.....in 7 years it won't be my problem. I still may not get a chance to renew my lease, but at least I'll get to enjoy the next month on my own patio, and I will have an oven again! <squeal!>
Moving out of the hotel today and shutting down the computer. Thanks to all for your help and support! I REALLY appreciate it! See you around..........
I'm totally confused by this whole water heater issue. I've never heard of needing a permit to replace a water heater and have never known a water heater to "give way" and leak all over the place/require a drainage area. This is a rental house not a huge commercial complex. My water heater was just replaced, was about 25 years old and, just like the new one and all the other residential heaters I've ever seen, has a hose attachment and shut-off valve for emptying it quickly if you don't want to wait for the time it takes to empty by turning on all your faucets. The last one I replaced was more like 30-40 years old and never had an "accident" resulting in any flooding. Certainly a permit was never required to replace them. I think we're confusing commercial and residential codes here.
I'm totally confused by this whole water heater issue. I've never heard of needing a permit to replace a water heater and have never known a water heater to "give way" and leak all over the place/require a drainage area. This is a rental house not a huge commercial complex. My water heater was just replaced, was about 25 years old and, just like the new one and all the other residential heaters I've ever seen, has a hose attachment and shut-off valve for emptying it quickly if you don't want to wait for the time it takes to empty by turning on all your faucets. The last one I replaced was more like 30-40 years old and never had an "accident" resulting in any flooding. Certainly a permit was never required to replace them. I think we're confusing commercial and residential codes here.
Actually it depends. in my area WH are only allowed to be installed by permit. Also requires earthquake strapping. Commercial or residential doesn't matter. Basically all they care about is really the earthquake strapping.
On a rental about 12 years ago I had a WH leak. The tenant called me to tell me at 8 am. I asked him to turn off the water and open the drain spigot and I'll get a plumber out to look at it that day ASAP. I was on the azz side of Los Angeles AKA South Central and couldn't leave.
So what does my completely idiotic tenant do. He doesn't shut off the water. When I got there the plumber told me he had a nice flood POURING out of the WH closet when he arrived. When I asked why he simply didn't shut off water and drain WH he said well we had to take showers. I seriously never wanted to strangle someone more than I did that day. $4500 bucks later it was fixed. The heater, the drywall the door etc.
When I do a WH now it gets a drain pan and a drain pipe to outside. No exceptions.
And of course they were getting lower rent because they were friends. Eventually i had enough and gave them notice to vacate
^^^ Thanks for the info! I can't imagine how you managed to NOT strangle that idiot tenant - such restraint is commendable!
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