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You didn't give notice by 60 days, this, you have to stay until end of lease term, then give 30-day notice. You are interpreting your lease incorrectly. The manager is right!
I did give 60 days notice. You have not read my lease, but I would be happy to send it to you with personal information redacted. I have 2 courses left in graduate school with straight A's. I am able to establish credibility as someone who is literate and educated, who should be able to understand a simple lease.
In this case, there are no words in my lease that say I am legally obligated to a new notice once the month-to-month lease begins. People like you should not post negative comments when you do not understand and have no legal background or expertise in this area.
In other words, you should only provide criticism if it is constructive and if you are able to establish some credibility. (yes I know I am feeding a troll!)
Thanks for your response. I wrote to the regional manager regarding my situation, hoping that the company will eventually give in or meet me halfway- something. I am pretty sure that if this were to ever go to court, that a judge would rule in the complex's favor, not mine, so I agree with you. In order to save $500.00 it isn't worth the legal battle. I did write the following letter to the regional manager:
Dear _______,
I appreciate your help in advance and I apologize for this lengthy letter. My name is ________ and I live in the _______ Complex in Cary, NC. Your contact information was provided to me by the property manager here, ______. I will be moving from my apartment sometime in the next few weeks and I provided notice to _______ on November 19.
My current lease ends on January 5th, 2015. I couldn't give exactly 60 days prior to that exact date; however, I did understand that due to this, my lease rolls over to month-to-month. After reading the lease, my understanding was that I would pay a pro-rated portion of the month-to-month rate until I have met the end of the 60 day notice.
______ has informed me that I have not provided adequate notice, that only when the new MTM lease begins am I able to provide a new 30 days notice in order to terminate the lease. So, instead of paying until January 19th (60 days from my notice) I now have to pay until February 5th, 17 days beyond the required 60 days for the current lease term. 17 days at month-to-month is around $500.00 more that I will need to pay to your company.
This does not make sense to me. I understand there is a reason that 60 days are required, as there are certain things that you must do in order to get the apartment leased and plan for renovations (I understand all the vacant apartments are being renovated). I also understand the need for a 30 day notice if you are already in a month-to-month lease; however, there is nothing on my lease which states that if I roll into a month-to-month lease, that I must provide an additional 30 days notice at the beginning of the month-to-month lease.
Everything else on the lease is quite standard, well written and clearly understandable. Pet policies, deposit policies, maintenance policies, etc. are clearly written so that a layperson like myself can easily follow the rules of their contractual agreement.
In this particular situation, I feel as if the words on the lease are being slightly bent in favor of the apartment complex and that ______'s explanation of my legal obligation are not spelled out in the actual words that I signed my name to. I asked the manager-in-training to show me where this is explained on the lease, and instead she said "Maybe _____ can explain it to you." I then, in an email to ______, asked "Would you mind telling me exactly in the lease this is stated?" Instead, he pointed me in your direction so you could better "explain" it to me. This tells me the specific parts written regarding notice are flawed.
Again, thank you for reading this lengthy letter. I believe I am well within the written terms of the lease by vacating on January 19th; however, I do not want to find myself in a legal battle should the complex disagree.
Sincerely,
_____________
Your letter is perfect, IMO. It's very well written and reasonable, yet also offers the threat you may sue if he doesn't do what's right. Couldn't have done better myself, and I'm dang good at letters...
I did give 60 days notice. You have not read my lease, but I would be happy to send it to you with personal information redacted. I have 2 courses left in graduate school with straight A's. I am able to establish credibility as someone who is literate and educated, who should be able to understand a simple lease.
In this case, there are no words in my lease that say I am legally obligated to a new notice once the month-to-month lease begins. People like you should not post negative comments when you do not understand and have no legal background or expertise in this area.
In other words, you should only provide criticism if it is constructive and if you are able to establish some credibility. (yes I know I am feeding a troll!)
According to the letter you wrote, you didn't provide 60 day notice. Your lease ends on Jan 5 that means that your notice to vacate or renew should be submitted no later than Nov 5.
Your lease wouldn't mention anything other than it's going month to month if you don't vacate or renew....state law covers your month to month 'lease' as your annual lease has expired. Most states require a 30 day notice on a month to month lease.
I hope get the answer you're looking for, but the fact is you did fail to give proper 60 day notice and now have to give a proper 30 day notice and pay the month to month rate until you vacate.
.......state law covers your month to month 'lease' as your annual lease has expired. Most states require a 30 day notice on a month to month lease.
I don't agree with this. When your annual lease passes the lease-end-date, it reverts to a month the month lease. Whatever is spelled out in that lease still applies, except the end date passes and it reverts to month to month. State law default laws only apply for verbal leases or for things that aren't spelled out in the most recent written lease.
According to the letter you wrote, you didn't provide 60 day notice. Your lease ends on Jan 5 that means that your notice to vacate or renew should be submitted no later than Nov 5.
Kim, I understand where you are coming from; however, what you have stated is not in the document I signed. There must be some magic bubble out there where a part of the population has insight into rental agreements. I represent the majority of people who do not have this experience and should not be expected to. I should be bound only to the written words on the legal agreement that I signed. What you have stated is not in that document. If it were, this would not even be an issue. I am in my 30s and have rented many times before; I have never been in this situation.
The only reason I brought up my educational background in an earlier post is to establish my credibility as someone who is literate, educated and responsible. Given the somewhat low-income neighborhood that I am in, I am willing to guess there are only a few people with higher education beyond college (this might seem biased, but is based on my understanding of statistics and socioeconomic status).
I am new to city-data, so I am not sure how to quote another part of your message, but you mentioned state law. In NC, only 7 days are legally required in a month to month lease; however, as in my lease, this is overridden if the document specifically states otherwise (which it does- it says "30 days notice is required to terminate a month-to-month lease"). But, that is all it says. It doesn't say when that notice should be given, it is typed under a "special provisions" section. It doesn't say anything beyond that. There should be a place on the lease that states something like the following: "In the event the tenant is unable to provide 60 days notice prior to the end of the one-year lease term, the lease will be rolled over into a month-to-month lease. In this case, a new 30 days notice will be required at the beginning of the new month-to-month lease term." Something like that.
I have examined my lease thoroughly, I have researched NC law, I have "Googled" other people's experiences in order to see if anyone has experienced this and so far I find myself alone, with only words on a page that are not clear.
If you provided a written notice terminating your tenancy at least 60 days from the date of the notice, it is a properly provided end of occupancy notice. The only thing that matters is you gave notice of terminating your occupancy and never discussed changing to a month to month arrangement. What this means is you fulfilled your original lease period and held over (with permission) until your 60 day notice expired.
Now, the only glitch will be if your lease required notices to correspond with monthly rental terms/periods. So, if you gave a 60 day notice on the 19th of November, it would not take effect until February 5th because that's your rental period. Technically, if the lease calls for rental terms/periods, it wouldn't mater if you gave notice November 6th or December 4th (and all day in between), it would still have the same end date of February 5th. So, is there anything in your lease referencing notice corresponding to monthly term of the lease?
If you provided a written notice terminating your tenancy at least 60 days from the date of the notice, it is a properly provided end of occupancy notice. The only thing that matters is you gave notice of terminating your occupancy and never discussed changing to a month to month arrangement. What this means is you fulfilled your original lease period and held over (with permission) until your 60 day notice expired.
Now, the only glitch will be if your lease required notices to correspond with monthly rental terms/periods. So, if you gave a 60 day notice on the 19th of November, it would not take effect until February 5th because that's your rental period. Technically, if the lease calls for rental terms/periods, it wouldn't mater if you gave notice November 6th or December 4th (and all day in between), it would still have the same end date of February 5th. So, is there anything in your lease referencing notice corresponding to monthly term of the lease?
Rabrrita,
Thank you so much for your constructive response!
There are only 3 places on the lease regarding notice (this is verbatim except what I added in parentheses):
Paragraph 3.
"LEASE TERM:
The initial term of the Lease Contract begins on the 6th day of January, 2014, and ends at midnight the 5th day of January, 2015. This lease contract will renew month-to-month unless either party gives at least 60 days written notice of termination or intent to move-out as required by paragraph 36."
Paragraph 36.
MOVE-OUT NOTICE. Before moving out, you must give our representative written move-out notice as provided below. Your written move-out notice will not release you from liability for the full term of the lease contract or renewal term, You will still be liable for the entire lease term if you move out early (paragraph 21) except under the military clause (paragraph 22) (it then goes on to state how written notice should be given, not an issue here- the manner in which I wrote my notice was fine)
(paragraph 21 and 22 only discuss what entitlements you might have regarding move-out, like military work)
Paragraph 10.
SPECIAL PROVISIONS.
The following special provisions and any addends or written rules furnished to you at or before signing will become a part of the Lease Contract and will supersede any conflicting provisions of this printed lease term:
'30 days notice required to terminate a month to month lease'
So, this is all that is in the lease regarding notice... other people have asked about monthly terms, but there is nothing like that in my lease. Everything above can be interpreted in the complex's favor, but if you look at it critically, they have left holes and have not explained my specific situation.
I am feeling a little defeated. It isn't even about the money, as I can pay them.
What bothers me most about this, is that innocent people with the best of intentions are just trying to live. We all need a roof over our heads, running water, and hopefully light and heat in our current world. We walk into a complex, are happily approved, read over the lease and sign our names. Yay, new place! New beginning!
Then, later our life picks up and we are ready to move onto something new. We do our best to be responsible and do what we are obligated to do, only to be blind-sided with more bureaucracy and unreasonable expectations, because that is the bottom line for the company we signed our names to.
Come on, rental companies... if 60 days notice is needed, then by all means hold people to that, but don't be jacka$$es and try to squeeze as much money as you can out of someone because the opportunity has presented itself. Be reasonable, be fair and don't be jerks.
Not what you want to hear, but contractualy (and common sense) you must provide 60 days notice prior to the end of the contract to vacate, which you did not do. As a result, you are now obligated to give a 30 day notice.
You cannot choose a random date to move out of the property...that is not how life works.
You have met the contractual requirement for a 60 days notice as your lease specifies. There would be no argument that the time requirement was met. However, when looking at the lease terms combined, their is some ambiguity as to the holdover which may create some problem. I've highlighted the key phrases in each separate section:
Quote:
Originally Posted by katnc
Paragraph 3.
"LEASE TERM:
The initial term of the Lease Contract begins on the 6th day of January, 2014, and ends at midnight the 5th day of January, 2015. This lease contract will renew month-to-month unless either party gives at least 60 days written notice of termination or intent to move-out as required by paragraph 36."
Paragraph 36.
MOVE-OUT NOTICE. Before moving out, you must give our representative written move-out notice as provided below. Your written move-out notice will not release you from liability for the full term of the lease contract or renewal term, You will still be liable for the entire lease term if you move out early (paragraph 21) except under the military clause (paragraph 22) (it then goes on to state how written notice should be given, not an issue here- the manner in which I wrote my notice was fine)
Paragraph 3 clearly only requires a 60 days notice for the original lease term. But, you heldover and went to a month to month. Paragraph 36 states the notice does not relive you of liability for the holdover term which is 30 days. So, the landlord can argue that although you contractually met the 60 days notice, your term does not expire until February 5th because you have a new one month term.
Now, withholding wading through realms of case law for your state on this, you may or may not prevail. Your argument is the term related to the month to month renewal does not specify that a new notice is required or that the original term notice does not extend to the month to month. Further, it is not clear that notices provided under the original term does not correspond to the time of the notice but rather the lease periodic term. As such there is ambiguity in the contract wording and most case law favors the person who did not draw up the contract. The court may decide that since there is a question as to what it really means, what it really says, and what it does not say, it swings to your favor. This is highly dependent on case law.
I would say that if push comes to shove and your a good debater, you can prevail in a small claims action citing ambiguity and confusion that the landlord failed to explain at the time the contract renewed for that month. The landlord had ample opportunity to tell you you needed a new notice because they were aware you had served the original 60 days.
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