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Are hot tubs the same as pools as far as liability is concerned? If we are landlords renting a house with a hot tub, how should that be handled?
if it were me, I'd pull the hot tub out. If it breaks & you provided it (in my state) you have to fix it. If I had to leave it there, I'd treat it exactly the same as a pool - fenced, child-proof gates, lease provisions requiring the tenant not to disable or remove the fence/gates, extra insurance, waivers, wear a full-body condom when signing the lease, etc.
If a tenant added a pool without permission, instant eviction - as fast as legally possible, with no compromise or negotiation on my part. Trying to add one without permission means they're either stupid, or trying to game me, and neither one would fly.
Would people do that? isn't it common sense to not alter a property you are renting without owner permission. I didn't realize lease agreement can allow such thing without a prior discussion
B) I am less than halfway through a 24 month lease with a non-reciprocal penalty free termination clause after 18 months.
Arizona says otherwise. Just saying.
my lease has specific language regarding adding a pool - adding one would get you a 5-day health & safety breach notice & you'ld be sleeping in your car in 24 days (or less) if it wasn't removed & the property restored fully in that 5 day period. Your state laws may vary, I only rent properties in Az.
Further - after 12 months in one of my properties, the lease converts to month-to-month & wouldn't be renewed, so in your "best case" scenario, you might get 45 whole days to pack (and an eviction on your credit report) + a bill & a judgement for restoring the property for being difficult. // just sayin'.
my lease has specific language regarding adding a pool - adding one would get you a 5-day health & safety breach notice & you'ld be sleeping in your car in 24 days (or less) if it wasn't removed & the property restored fully in that 5 day period. Your state laws may vary, I only rent properties in Az.
Arizona law requires 10 day cure or quit notices for breach of contract. The 5 day health and safety notice doesn't appear applicable to a pool, and if you have caselaw that says otherwise please post it up so I can take a look.
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Further - after 12 months in one of my properties, the lease converts to month-to-month & wouldn't be renewed, so in your "best case" scenario, you might get 45 whole days to pack (and an eviction on your credit report) + a bill & a judgement for restoring the property for being difficult. // just sayin'.
Couple problems for you here:
1) I wouldn't stay on a month to month lease. You'd either renew the lease for my protection or I'd walk and leave you holding the bag to find a new, desirable tenant while you lost money with a vacant property. Given what it looks like is happening in the Phoenix rental market, you'd still lose in the end.
2) You could only file eviction assuming I didn't leave at the conclusion of the lease, so that's an empty threat.
3) I'm educated enough on credit law to know that evictions themselves do not report to the credit bureaus, and I know how to get judgments off credit reports with decent success rates.
4) Even if I were to hypothetically allow 2&3 to happen, I'd make sure to restore the property myself to protect against inflated costs. I've done that before.
Arizona law requires 10 day cure or quit notices for breach of contract. The 5 day health and safety notice doesn't appear applicable to a pool, and if you have caselaw that says otherwise please post it up so I can take a look.
Couple problems for you here:
1) I wouldn't stay on a month to month lease. You'd either renew the lease for my protection or I'd walk and leave you holding the bag to find a new, desirable tenant while you lost money with a vacant property. Given what it looks like is happening in the Phoenix rental market, you'd still lose in the end.
2) You could only file eviction assuming I didn't leave at the conclusion of the lease, so that's an empty threat.
3) I'm educated enough on credit law to know that evictions themselves do not report to the credit bureaus, and I know how to get judgments off credit reports with decent success rates.
4) Even if I were to hypothetically allow 2&3 to happen, I'd make sure to restore the property myself to protect against inflated costs. I've done that before.
So yeah, color me unimpressed.
Yeah, I'm unimpressed as well.
Pools require permits in my city.
No permit, extension cord running across the yard for the pump, no fence with childproof gate = health & safety violation. 5 day notice.
Altering my property without my permission, violating an explicit provision of the lease = 10 day notice.
Month-to-month tenancy, - 30 day notice.
All three go in the mail on the same day.
Evictions pop both on your credit report in the "public records" section, and at the courthouse website. // you can't hide.
As for finding great tenants, your opinion of the Phoenix metro is inaccurate (not that I care) & bouncing a tenant who knowingly violates an explicit provision of my lease isn't about money anyway. I'd much rather have a vacant house than a bad tenant.
Would people do that? isn't it common sense to not alter a property you are renting without owner permission. I didn't realize lease agreement can allow such thing without a prior discussion
I came up to a single family home I manage to see a crew taking out a wood railing to install a handicap ramp..
They also modify the shower and a doorway...
The kicker is the tenant was injured on the job and all of this was being paid for through worker's comp...
Not a word to the owner or me...
The foreman handed me a copy of State Law stating the landlord shall not unreasonably withhold permission for handicap modifications... my point is No One Asked Permission.
So yes... some do think they can do whatever they want... in this case they got away with it... owner weighed the options and decided to let it go...
No permit, extension cord running across the yard for the pump, no fence with childproof gate = health & safety violation. 5 day notice.
According to official documents, the 5 day notice is for "when violations of the lease or rental agreement could potentially impact the health and/or safety of the other tenants." Clearly, this section is aimed at unsanitary conditions and things of that nature and a cursory Google search showed no instances that would support your position that is a pretty drastic leap in logic.
That leaves you back on the 10 day notice.
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Evictions pop both on your credit report in the "public records" section
You wanna bet?
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As for finding great tenants, your opinion of the Phoenix metro is inaccurate (not that I care)
Wasn't *my* opinion, sport.
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But thanks for playing.
I'd like to point out that this whole thing started with me simply pointing out that your blustering threats were empty under Arizona law (which you've since backtracked from) and you were the one who made a very poor attempt at engaging me in a e-schlong measuring contest.
According to official documents, the 5 day notice is for "when violations of the lease or rental agreement could potentially impact the health and/or safety of the other tenants." Clearly, this section is aimed at unsanitary conditions and things of that nature and a cursory Google search showed no instances that would support your position that is a pretty drastic leap in logic.
That leaves you back on the 10 day notice.
You wanna bet?
Wasn't *my* opinion, sport.
I'd like to point out that this whole thing started with me simply pointing out that your blustering threats were empty under Arizona law (which you've since backtracked from) and you were the one who made a very poor attempt at engaging me in a e-schlong measuring contest.
There's no "bluster" on my end, just truth. You don't know this market, you don't know the law in my state, and there is no "contest" going on here. I haven't "backtracked" on anything, nor would I in the situation proposed. Landlord/tenant laws are very different from state-to-state, and Az is heavily in favor of the property owner - even in a state with pro-tenant laws, you're going to be climbing uphill if you think you can do something in direct opposition to a contract provision (no pools!) and get away with it.
If you want a pool so bad, save your pennies & buy/rent a house with one, don't pretend you have a "right" to damage someone else's property, because you don't.
If a tenant added a pool without permission, instant eviction - as fast as legally possible, with no compromise or negotiation on my part.
My response.
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Arizona says otherwise. Just saying.
And then you came back with this.
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my lease has specific language regarding adding a pool - adding one would get you a 5-day health & safety breach notice & you'ld be sleeping in your car in 24 days (or less) if it wasn't removed & the property restored fully in that 5 day period. Your state laws may vary, I only rent properties in Az.
Claiming that you would do an "instant eviction" when no such mechanism exists under AZ law is blustering, empty threats. You admitting that you only have the cure or quit notice as remedy is backtracking.
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you don't know the law in my state
More than you, clearly.
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If you want a pool so bad, save your pennies & buy/rent a house with one, don't pretend you have a "right" to damage someone else's property, because you don't.
This isn't about me. I don't have a pool, nor do I really want one.
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