Welcome to City-Data.com Forum!
U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Real Estate > Renting
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 11-19-2015, 07:10 PM
 
15,546 posts, read 11,919,318 times
Reputation: 32595

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by katjonjj View Post
Good point but what if the OP signed it then the LL crossed out the date while making a copy or before handing it over to the OP?
The OP said it was already crossed out when he signed the lease.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 11-19-2015, 07:29 PM
 
4 posts, read 5,668 times
Reputation: 10
You should get legal advice on this. This should not cost too much.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-19-2015, 08:09 PM
 
Location: Morrisville, NC
9,123 posts, read 14,668,112 times
Reputation: 8983
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sundaydrive00 View Post
But the tenant does have his own copy that he signed, with the changes. Sorry, I just don't think it is very good advice to be telling people to just lie in court to get your way. The OP should have read the lease before he signed. Since he didn't, he'll have to deal with the consequences of either staying another year or breaking his lease.

I always read my leases before signing them. There have been times when I questioned things in the lease, and asked for changes. I had one where it was supposed to be a 12 month lease, but the dates were only for a 6 month. I pointed that out and had it changed. The OP could have done the same if he had bothered reading a legally binding document before signing.
Please point out where I've told anyone to lie. I don't think you'll be able to.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-20-2015, 11:00 AM
 
Location: Seattle, Washington
8,435 posts, read 10,466,654 times
Reputation: 1737
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sundaydrive00 View Post
The OP said it was already crossed out when he signed the lease.
Even if it was crossed out when he signed the lease, that doesn't mean he agreed to the change. Any competent judge will deem it a he said/she said situation and have to rule in favor of the tenant. Handwritten changes to a contract MUST have both initials to be valid. The other issue is that this is not a minor modification of the lease. Adding a year to the contract is a major modification and the judge would also view that as in favor of the change being invalid. IMO

"Minor modifications to a contract can be handwritten onto the document. Clearly write the changes, and sign your initials next to each change, before signing the entire document. If they agree to the changes, the other party will also initial the changes and sign the document.
For major modifications to a contract, first negotiate those changes with the other parties, then ask the person who originally drafted the document to print a modified version of the contract. All parties should review the reprinted document to ensure that the correct changes were made, and sign the newest version." Contract Modification
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-20-2015, 02:15 PM
 
Location: Saint Paul, MN
1,365 posts, read 1,873,794 times
Reputation: 2987
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sherifftruman View Post
Please point out where I've told anyone to lie. I don't think you'll be able to.
I think it's a bit strong to say you told the OP to lie, but I think it's also a bit...sly...to claim you didn't.

The whole "there's no proof" thing only works in this case if the person making that argument lies about the material facts. The OP admitted that the change was made to the contract before he or she signed. If he or she was honest with the mediator or court or whomever is involved, that would be the end of it--acknowledging the facts is proof enough.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-21-2015, 03:43 PM
 
15,546 posts, read 11,919,318 times
Reputation: 32595
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sherifftruman View Post
Please point out where I've told anyone to lie. I don't think you'll be able to.
You even said yourself that the OP would be committing perjury.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sherifftruman View Post
But, if the tenant had nothing and the owner had only a signed copy, with a strike through without initials, it would not hold up in court. So, because the owner failed to get the document properly executed, in this case, the tenant could do that, though it would be committing perjury most likely.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-21-2015, 03:45 PM
 
15,546 posts, read 11,919,318 times
Reputation: 32595
Quote:
Originally Posted by katjonjj View Post
Even if it was crossed out when he signed the lease, that doesn't mean he agreed to the change.
Then the document should not have been signed. The issue should have been brought up right then and there, not 2 years later.

I would never sign a document that I didn't agree with.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-21-2015, 08:30 PM
 
Location: Morrisville, NC
9,123 posts, read 14,668,112 times
Reputation: 8983
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sundaydrive00 View Post
You even said yourself that the OP would be committing perjury.
I'd say that's a pretty strong admonition against lying.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-21-2015, 09:58 PM
 
3,461 posts, read 4,654,598 times
Reputation: 4032
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sundaydrive00 View Post
Then the document should not have been signed. The issue should have been brought up right then and there, not 2 years later.

I would never sign a document that I didn't agree with.

As others have mentioned, there could be a multitude of reasons that the OP, or anyone for that matter, did not see the LL make that change and initial it prior to signing. For all we know, the OP could have stepped out to use the restroom or take a phone call and the LL could have made that change after the OP had already read it through thoroughly and was ready to sign it. Not many people would think or be expected to look over every line of the contract again to see if there were any changes made to it when they stepped out for a few minutes. And if push came to shove I am sure a judge would agree.

That is why there are procedures and laws in place to protect all parties regarding a contract. Any changes to a contract, whether the contract is signed or not, need to either 1) be initialed by all parties or 2) an addendum needs to be added and signed by all parties or 3) the contract needs to be completely redone. I can't imagine that you would find any judge that is ever going to rule in the LL's favor in this situation.

There are even some contract situations that require every page of the contract be initialed in addition to signing the contract or it is null and void.

If you need some concrete verification then google it but otherwise this is basic contract law 101. I did a quick search and found both of these at the top of the search.

To make small changes to a legal document, the term in question must be crossed out, altered, and initialed by each party in order to become legally binding. Larger changes may require an amendment or separate document.
http://blog.lawdepot.com/your-guide-to-signing-legal-contracts/



Minor modifications to a contract can be handwritten onto the document. Clearly write the changes, and sign your initials next to each change, before signing the entire document. If they agree to the changes, the other party will also initial the changes and sign the document.

For major modifications to a contract, first negotiate those changes with the other parties, then ask the person who originally drafted the document to print a modified version of the contract. All parties should review the reprinted document to ensure that the correct changes were made, and sign the newest version.
http://contracts.lawyers.com/contracts-basics/contract-modification.html
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-22-2015, 11:28 AM
 
Location: Seattle, Washington
8,435 posts, read 10,466,654 times
Reputation: 1737
Quote:
Originally Posted by Corn-fused View Post
As others have mentioned, there could be a multitude of reasons that the OP, or anyone for that matter, did not see the LL make that change and initial it prior to signing. For all we know, the OP could have stepped out to use the restroom or take a phone call and the LL could have made that change after the OP had already read it through thoroughly and was ready to sign it. Not many people would think or be expected to look over every line of the contract again to see if there were any changes made to it when they stepped out for a few minutes. And if push came to shove I am sure a judge would agree.

That is why there are procedures and laws in place to protect all parties regarding a contract. Any changes to a contract, whether the contract is signed or not, need to either 1) be initialed by all parties or 2) an addendum needs to be added and signed by all parties or 3) the contract needs to be completely redone. I can't imagine that you would find any judge that is ever going to rule in the LL's favor in this situation.

There are even some contract situations that require every page of the contract be initialed in addition to signing the contract or it is null and void.

If you need some concrete verification then google it but otherwise this is basic contract law 101. I did a quick search and found both of these at the top of the search.

To make small changes to a legal document, the term in question must be crossed out, altered, and initialed by each party in order to become legally binding. Larger changes may require an amendment or separate document.
http://blog.lawdepot.com/your-guide-to-signing-legal-contracts/



Minor modifications to a contract can be handwritten onto the document. Clearly write the changes, and sign your initials next to each change, before signing the entire document. If they agree to the changes, the other party will also initial the changes and sign the document.

For major modifications to a contract, first negotiate those changes with the other parties, then ask the person who originally drafted the document to print a modified version of the contract. All parties should review the reprinted document to ensure that the correct changes were made, and sign the newest version.
http://contracts.lawyers.com/contracts-basics/contract-modification.html
Exactly. I would think a judge would consider the addition of a year to the lease a MAJOR modification. So even the handwritten change would become invalid especially since it wasn't initialed by both parties. The LL cannot prove when the change was made, whether the OP was aware of the change, nor the OP agreed to the change. If the OP admitted the change was made prior to signing but that he didn't agree to the change, I would think the judge would say the LL didn't properly execute the change anyway so it's a moot point.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Real Estate > Renting

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2024, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Contact Us - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37 - Top