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Getting a letter off a website does not have to compel a landlord to provide a reasonable accommodation. Come on...we all know that the ESA websites are scams.
Getting a letter off a website does not have to compel a landlord to provide a reasonable accommodation. Come on...we all know that the ESA websites are scams.
I'm still waiting for your citation of law stating this fact.
I'm still waiting for your citation of law stating this fact.
And i am waiting on your citiation that the landlord is required to accept a letter from an online "doctor" who has obviously never even met the patient. Accepting such is NOT a reasonable accomodation....it is a very UNREASONABLE accommodation.
And i am waiting on your citiation that the landlord is required to accept a letter from an online "doctor" who has obviously never even met the patient.
I'm quite curious if you have even the slightest bit of an understanding as to how ignorant and obtuse you are appearing right now.
I have provided to you the actual text of the Fair Housing Act and official HUD guidelines on how it should be interpreted and applied. Those documents make clear what the requirements are for who can prescribe an ESA and what that prescription must contain. Any physician or other licensed mental healthcare provider meets the first requirement as confirmed by the HUD document I provided to you.
Clearly, you seem to be under the mistaken belief that unless the law specifically states that the letter may come from an online source then you are within your rights to disregard it. Fortunately for those of us with some common sense, the law does not work in that manner. Legislators obviously cannot contemplate every contingency (especially in the case of the Fair Housing Act, which was signed into law in 1968 and thus predates home computers, consumer internet and remote medicine by decades) and thus we rely on reasonable interpretations and, when needed, the courts to settle these disputes of fact. Given that remote medicine is becoming increasingly common and that the type of disorders that an ESA would treat often require no physical examination, it is a long shot at best that a court would side with a landlord in this case.
Interestingly enough, the link that you provided in post #86 satisfies not only the Fair Housing Act requirements, but your own requirements in that very same post, as the letter is provided by a licensed healthcare professional after evaluating the patient.
I also think it is quite obvious that you have no legal justification for your opinion as you have claimed, just your own indignation. If such legal justification existed, you would have shown it by now. I can only hope that the actual professional landlords on here aren't persuaded by your nonsense, lest they get hit with significant legal and financial repercussions.
Quote:
Accepting such is NOT a reasonable accomodation....it is a very UNREASONABLE accommodation.
To be quite frank, the relationship between a doctor and their patient is of no concern to you. Furthermore, I'd ask how you would even begin to establish whether a prospective tenant had actually visited a certain doctor or not.
And i am waiting on your citiation that the landlord is required to accept a letter from an online "doctor" who has obviously never even met the patient. Accepting such is NOT a reasonable accomodation....it is a very UNREASONABLE accommodation.
The FHA Act requires a landlord to accept a letter from the health care or counseling professional as to the need by that patient/client for the need of the Assistance Animal. I suggest you actually read the FHA Act.
Now, that doesn't mean the landlord can't conduct verification as to the legitimate status of the health care or counseling professional, but it's limited to verifying that the person did write the letter and is authorized to write such a letter. All other suspicions regarding boiler room ESA mills need to be sent to HUD, DOJ or whomever the landlord believes will act against those operations. Again, I suggest you actually read the FHA Act.
HUD specifically recognizes that apartment owners and managers are entitled to “reliable documentation” when the disability and need are not apparent. A typical letter from an internet vendor is not reliable on its face because the diagnostic tools used by these vendors do not conform to acceptable medical practice. Nothing in the Fair Housing Act requires that apartment owners and managers grant reasonable accommodations based on letters that have no scientific or medical support.
HUD specifically recognizes that apartment owners and managers are entitled to “reliable documentation†when the disability and need are not apparent. A typical letter from an internet vendor is not reliable on its face because the diagnostic tools used by these vendors do not conform to acceptable medical practice. Nothing in the Fair Housing Act requires that apartment owners and managers grant reasonable accommodations based on letters that have no scientific or medical support.
You're overly trying to find a reason to support your position.
The FHA Act allows a landlord to verify the legitimacy of the document, not the determination of need. NOTHING in the FHA Act allows a landlord to second guess the health determination need specified in the letter by the authorizing health care professional. Unless you are that person's health care professional or counselor, who the heck are you to provide a qualified second opinion as to the need? You are nothing but some person renting out a unit in a building for money.
So, again, you can only confirm that the letter was written for the patient/client and the person signing it meets the definition of the type of professional that can sign. If they say they did and the person's license/credentials are valid, you got your confirmation.
You're overly trying to find a reason to support your position.
The FHA Act allows a landlord to verify the legitimacy of the document, not the determination of need. NOTHING in the FHA Act allows a landlord to second guess the health determination need specified in the letter by the authorizing health care professional. Unless you are that person's health care professional or counselor, who the heck are you to provide a qualified second opinion as to the need? You are nothing but some person renting out a unit in a building for money.
So, again, you can only confirm that the letter was written for the patient/client and the person signing it meets the definition of the type of professional that can sign. If they say they did and the person's license/credentials are valid, you got your confirmation.
A few things are immediately clear. First, Reenzz is obviously more concerned about winning an argument than she is about being factually correct. Second, she is re-enforcing the ugly stereotype of landlords as ill intentioned people who use their position to try to assert authority over others, especially those who dare question their perceived position of power. That is a dangerous combination for any landlord and the only reason it probably hasn't come back to bite Reenzz is that she is not a professional landlord.
Lastly--and what I have not told Reenzz yet--is that I work in a hospital that has several psychiatric units and while I am not a mental health professional myself, I work in close enough conjunction with them to have some rudimentary understanding of how they perform their work. I actually stopped and asked one of our counselors today about the viability of teleconference medicine, especially in mental health. He confirmed to me that it is becoming rather commonplace, and showed me a couple sites and apps that do exactly that. Our own hospital is actually rolling out a service that allows the employees to connect with doctors through an internal service for all manner of basic healthcare needs, including basic mental health. He also confirmed that with some exceptions, there is not much a mental health professional can do in person that he or she couldn't do remotely.
A few things are immediately clear. First, Reenzz is obviously more concerned about winning an argument than she is about being factually correct. Second, she is re-enforcing the ugly stereotype of landlords as ill intentioned people who use their position to try to assert authority over others, especially those who dare question their perceived position of power. That is a dangerous combination for any landlord and the only reason it probably hasn't come back to bite Reenzz is that she is not a professional landlord.
Lastly--and what I have not told Reenzz yet--is that I work in a hospital that has several psychiatric units and while I am not a mental health professional myself, I work in close enough conjunction with them to have some rudimentary understanding of how they perform their work. I actually stopped and asked one of our counselors today about the viability of teleconference medicine, especially in mental health. He confirmed to me that it is becoming rather commonplace, and showed me a couple sites and apps that do exactly that. Our own hospital is actually rolling out a service that allows the employees to connect with doctors through an internal service for all manner of basic healthcare needs, including basic mental health. He also confirmed that with some exceptions, there is not much a mental health professional can do in person that he or she couldn't do remotely.
TL;DR - Reenzz is spectacularly wrong.
So tenants who want to bypass the pet fees, pet rent or just a no pet policy are free to commit fraud for falsely claiming that thay require an ESA. Tenants can enlist the help of the literally thousands of websites willing to write whatever the tenant wants is order to help perpetrate such fraud....for a fee of course. A tenant with a true disabilty that requires a ESA should be in the care of a medical doctor....NOT a website.
And yes...I've been a landlord for 40 years and a real estate paralegal for 36 years....but, as a landlord, I thank my lucky stars that do no have to accept any sort of animal if i choose not to.
So tenants who want to bypass the pet fees, pet rent or just a no pet policy are free to commit fraud for falsely claiming that thay require an ESA.
In a nutshell, Yes. So long as they posses the required documents signed by a person legally allowed to state the need, you're basically SOL!
However, if you suspect fraud, you turn it over to your state agency responsible for investigating fraud. In the meantime, you are free to write or call your federal elected officials and complain about the abuse and fraud by providing documentation to support your complaint. You are also welcome to offer up any suggestions to them on how to fix and improve the regulations.
Unfortunately, so many landlord are pure chickens dropping and to wimpy to do anything. As a result, the number of complaints Congress gets from landlords about the abuse is just too small for them to care about your stupid problem.
Now, to flip things to your way of thinking, based on your understanding, statements and lack of knowledge of the FHA Act, would't it be fair game to question the legitimacy of your "paralegal" credentials as probably also obtained from some online diploma mill? Seems if the criteria to call fraud is one's personal belief as you demand for FHA Assistance Animal accommodation documentation, you should have no issue if I demand you prove your paralegal credentials.
Last edited by Rabrrita; 06-19-2019 at 12:10 AM..
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