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Old 09-26-2016, 06:07 PM
 
5 posts, read 15,398 times
Reputation: 11

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Hello - We rent a house. It had some landscaping when we moved in and the lease says we have to maintain it. We have lived in the house for 7 years and now we're moving out. During that time the drought in CA has escalated to the point where very few in the area still water landscaping. Most have either switched to low water landscaping or have let their property go back to nature while maintaining fire safety. The area is somewhat rural with large, hilly lots.

Before the drought got really bad we spoke with the owner about re-seeding the lawn because it consisted of mostly weeds. Watering and mowing just kept them green and trimmed. The owner told us don't worry about it - everyone had stopped watering anyway. But we have nothing in writing that he agreed to that.

Unfortunately, the property management company's online reviews accuse them of requiring unreasonable move-out cleaning and repairs, basically using tenants in place of turnover services and avoiding their cost of doing business. The deposits are withheld if strict compliance with their terms is not met. After reading their very extensive move-out checklist and the condition that we must use a specific carpet cleaning company, including a statement that they will not accept receipts from 3 other local companies, I'm starting to see red flags.

Bottom line - the landscaping is all gone. No 'grass,' shrubs, or plantings remain. Any chance we're getting our $1650 deposit back?
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Old 09-26-2016, 06:21 PM
 
17,264 posts, read 11,098,319 times
Reputation: 40521
Quote:
Originally Posted by kfinnn View Post
Hello - We rent a house. It had some landscaping when we moved in and the lease says we have to maintain it. We have lived in the house for 7 years and now we're moving out. During that time the drought in CA has escalated to the point where very few in the area still water landscaping. Most have either switched to low water landscaping or have let their property go back to nature while maintaining fire safety. The area is somewhat rural with large, hilly lots.

Before the drought got really bad we spoke with the owner about re-seeding the lawn because it consisted of mostly weeds. Watering and mowing just kept them green and trimmed. The owner told us don't worry about it - everyone had stopped watering anyway. But we have nothing in writing that he agreed to that.

Unfortunately, the property management company's online reviews accuse them of requiring unreasonable move-out cleaning and repairs, basically using tenants in place of turnover services and avoiding their cost of doing business. The deposits are withheld if strict compliance with their terms is not met. After reading their very extensive move-out checklist and the condition that we must use a specific carpet cleaning company, including a statement that they will not accept receipts from 3 other local companies, I'm starting to see red flags.

Bottom line - the landscaping is all gone. No 'grass,' shrubs, or plantings remain. Any chance we're getting our $1650 deposit back?
Not likely. As far as the landscaping goes, you need a letter or a statement on a bill that required you to cut back the water by a certain percentage. Even that does not mean all of your landscape should have died. Millions of people in CA have cut back on watering as required by their specific water companies and still have landscapes surviving. The lawn maybe not, but trees and shrubs certainly should still be there. The fact that nothing has survived, points the finger at you as tenants that you just simply stopped watering everything and let it all die. I certainly wouldn't give you that deposit money back under those circumstances. Plants are expensive to buy and replace. It doesn't take much to add up to $1650 especially if you include labor to plant new things.
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Old 09-26-2016, 08:36 PM
 
Location: North Idaho
32,497 posts, read 47,458,225 times
Reputation: 77735
Quote:
Originally Posted by kfinnn View Post
....... Any chance we're getting our $1650 deposit back?
Not much of a chance.
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Old 09-26-2016, 08:59 PM
 
5 posts, read 15,398 times
Reputation: 11
There were only a few plants in front other than the weed 'grass.' A palm, a flowering shrub. Cheap stuff you can get at Home Depot. We can easily replace those for far less than $1650. Everything else was already natural. There were no trees that died or anything like that. I guess the only case that could be made is the large area of watered weeds they were calling a lawn.

I must say, I'm very disappointed at the tone of the answers I am getting on this board. Most of you sound just rude and seem to assume we are irresponsible people trying to escape cleaning when we move. We are responsible, clean, quiet people asking questions because this property management company appears to have a very bad reputation in town. We were unaware of this when we moved in. Rather than finding real opinions from responsible contributors, instead, I feel completely attacked and assumptions are being made.

This owner is pretty much a slum lord who wouldn't fix anything; left us with old, dingy, stained carpets and stained and cracking linoleum flooring. Vertical blinds were already disintegrating, old nasty toilet seats, rusty sink fixtures. The paint on the front and back porches wore off in about three years leaving wood exposed to the elements. We alerted them and were told it was redwood and would withstand the weather. Well, it has not and has since degraded significantly to where you risk serious splinters using the hand railing. The nails have all popped out about 1/2" so it's easy to catch a foot on them. The brick pad at the end of the back porch was improperly installed and even with nearly no rain has still become uneven and dangerous to walk on. When we pointed this out they advised it to remove the bricks. US remove the bricks - not they would send someone over to fix it. The old oven started to fail and they would not install a new one until the thing was nearly literally blowing up whenever we turned it on. A large amount of gas would accumulate before it ignited. You could smell gas all through the house every time we used it. They stopped trimming the large oak trees so we have branches that reach to the ground. They used to change the exterior light bulbs that are 20 ft off the ground but then suddenly changed their mind and said we were responsible. There's no way we can climb 20 ft.

So why don't you just try to be helpful?
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Old 09-26-2016, 10:37 PM
 
109 posts, read 552,258 times
Reputation: 143
We were in the same situation in FL: required to keep lawn green; I watered plants every single day, but let the rains water the weed lawn. We weren't charged for anything when we moved out.
Can you try this: water the "lawn" very well by auto or manual sprinklers every single day for about a week, 20 min each spot, and buy and replace cheap landscaping that died? The weeds will come back very green and healthy after a week of constant watering (they did in my experience), and the lawn will look much more attractive. This is what I would do if I had a week's time. I wish you good luck.
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Old 09-26-2016, 11:24 PM
 
3,461 posts, read 4,655,395 times
Reputation: 4032
You clearly have legitimate issues overall and you should definitely get some good legal advice. Unfortunately, no one here can give you legal advice and or get all of the minute details it would require to actually help you. But my personal opinion is that you should definitely fight it.

Knowledge is power so I would do all of the reading and research that you possibly can and if that does not give you the info you need, then it is definitely worth your time to seek out and pay for some legal advice. Based on what you have stated in this thread and your other thread, it does not appear that your sec dep is even going to cover everything that this PM is stating you need to do so be prepared for a bill above and beyond your sec dep. But even if they do just take your full deposit your concerns and issues are definitely worth fighting for the items that you stated that they do plan on deducting.

That is why you need to seek legal counsel to get good concrete legal advice and answers. Someone who can get every single detail from you including reading your full lease, getting all of the actual details from you and someone who knows your state laws/statutes inside out. Someone who actually has experience fighting these things.

Many tenants have been able to fight these things themselves simply by making sure they know their rights inside and out and researching everything possible and going through all of the proper procedures and attempts prior to ever having to sue the LL/PM in court. Unfortunately, far too many LLs try to bully tenants and take advantage of the tenant's ignorance on the laws and their rights and far too many tenants give up and just give in.

Again, I don't think you should sit still for any of this so either do the research yourself and follow the procedures and if you don't feel comfortable doing it yourself then you will need to find a legal source to consult with. Some may give you a free consultation and some will charge a nominal fee for a consult which in many cases, if you have doubts/questions about your situation, then the money you will spend will be well worth it. And by research I mean other than a bunch of differing opinions on a public forum when no one here has every single detail that it requires, don't have a copy of your lease, don't know your state laws/statutes inside and out and most of all, are not 'legal' sources.

I found this site which goes into things in a bit more detail or layman's terms and also provides you with what your options are and can be. It is an attorney site so take it for what it is worth.
California Tenant Law - Legal advice for California renters' rights

Otherwise, you stated you did read this site which I gave you in your other thread California Tenants - California Department of Consumer Affairs so you should be well aware that the LL/PM has to offer you a walk-through before you exit and provide you with an itemization of everything that needs to be done in order to get your sec dep returned and then you try to dispute those issues on the spot at the walk-thru. If they don't back down and you still have issues then there are steps you can take, such as writing a dispute letter listing your reasons why you dispute items that they are requiring that you repair or pay for. If that doesn't work then you either try other measures such as a demand letter after you receive your deposit or itemization of deductions and/or an additional invoice for 'damages'. Many times the dispute or demand letter will work because push is being turned into shove with them. But, if that doesn't work then you sue them in court which forces the LL/PM to back up and justify their demands. Most don't want to go that far and if they were pushing the envelope in the first place to see if you would bite, then they most likely will cave and back down because they won't be able to back anything up or justify it in court. It is many times amazing how much something in writing calling their bluff actually works. If you are not comfortable doing any of this yourself then again, as stated previously, you need to get legal help to assist you.

The only thing you are going to get here is personal 'opinions' or a yay or nay on whether people feel you have a case or not, and/or just to give you the push you need to decide whether to pursue it or not. But, they are 'opinions' only and they are free so take it for what it is worth.

But I say either fight it yourself if you feel confident enough or pursue a legal source to help you. I think you have a definite case on many of the issues. Good luck!
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Old 09-27-2016, 09:22 PM
 
548 posts, read 1,033,155 times
Reputation: 969
My advice is document, document, document. Hopefully you have pictures of when you moved in. Also take pictures once everything is clean and you are ready for a move out inspection. Include the daily newspaper in your photos. The reason for that is the date on the paper. Replace the shrubs or whatever if they are cheap enough that way they can't come after you for having to hire someone to do "landscaping". Get everything in writing. Nothing verbal. I wish you the best of luck.
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Old 09-27-2016, 11:44 PM
 
Location: Rural Michigan
6,343 posts, read 14,597,878 times
Reputation: 10548
Quote:
Originally Posted by kfinnn View Post
There were only a few plants in front other than the weed 'grass.' A palm, a flowering shrub. Cheap stuff you can get at Home Depot. We can easily replace those for far less than $1650. Everything else was already natural. There were no trees that died or anything like that. I guess the only case that could be made is the large area of watered weeds they were calling a lawn.

I must say, I'm very disappointed at the tone of the answers I am getting on this board. Most of you sound just rude and seem to assume we are irresponsible people trying to escape cleaning when we move. We are responsible, clean, quiet people asking questions because this property management company appears to have a very bad reputation in town. We were unaware of this when we moved in. Rather than finding real opinions from responsible contributors, instead, I feel completely attacked and assumptions are being made.

This owner is pretty much a slum lord who wouldn't fix anything; left us with old, dingy, stained carpets and stained and cracking linoleum flooring. Vertical blinds were already disintegrating, old nasty toilet seats, rusty sink fixtures. The paint on the front and back porches wore off in about three years leaving wood exposed to the elements. We alerted them and were told it was redwood and would withstand the weather. Well, it has not and has since degraded significantly to where you risk serious splinters using the hand railing. The nails have all popped out about 1/2" so it's easy to catch a foot on them. The brick pad at the end of the back porch was improperly installed and even with nearly no rain has still become uneven and dangerous to walk on. When we pointed this out they advised it to remove the bricks. US remove the bricks - not they would send someone over to fix it. The old oven started to fail and they would not install a new one until the thing was nearly literally blowing up whenever we turned it on. A large amount of gas would accumulate before it ignited. You could smell gas all through the house every time we used it. They stopped trimming the large oak trees so we have branches that reach to the ground. They used to change the exterior light bulbs that are 20 ft off the ground but then suddenly changed their mind and said we were responsible. There's no way we can climb 20 ft.

So why don't you just try to be helpful?
Every deadbeat tenant has a laundry list of problems to air when the rent is late, or they want a deposit back that they lost through misuse or abuse of a property.

You chose the property for a *reason*, and it's only reasonable to assume that it was the best rental available in your price range at the time you picked it. That isn't a "slum" in most cases - are all the homes in that area "slummy"?

The fact that you stayed for seven years also undercuts your story of woe. Either the price reflected the condition, or you're bad at picking rentals. In my market, I can't really rent a "slum"- tenants have choices & if I post a dump for top dollar, it'll sit empty while the tenants choose other rentals. You rented a used house, not a new one, and I highly doubt the rental agreement specified it would be maintained in "perfect" condition throughout your entire tenancy. If it did, you had a valid gripe, -and a good excuse to move, if not, it's all on you, quit whining.
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Old 09-27-2016, 11:55 PM
 
Location: Silicon Valley
18,813 posts, read 32,271,327 times
Reputation: 38559
Just take them to small claims court over your deposit. They have to give you written notice of your right to an initial (pre-move-out) inspection, and they have to give you a written list of what you have to do to get your full deposit back. They can't require you to use any company. They can't charge you for normal wear and tear.

I'd just wait to see what they do. If they offer you the option of a pre-move-out inspection, be sure you say yes. Keep records of when they do it - it can't be more than two weeks before move-out and they have to give you enough time to fix anything, and their list must be reasonable and can't include normal wear and tear items. And they can't require you to use any specific companies. You have the right to do everything yourself.

But, I wouldn't tell them any of that. I'd let them screw up. Then, wait to see if they send an itemization/refund within 21 days, Then send them a demand letter for the whole deposit. If they don't give it to you, then sue in small claims court and let a judge decide. Put on the form your full deposit amount and add "and any court costs and punitive damages allowed by the court."

Here's a reference to the security deposit laws in CA. Scroll down to the blue section for the initial inspection info:

Oh, and print out this page for the judge if you go to court:

California Tenants - California Department of Consumer Affairs

I've helped tenants get their full deposits back just based on the fact that the landlord didn't follow the initial inspection law properly, even though they left the unit trashed (long story, but goes to show the landlords have to follow the law).
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Old 09-28-2016, 06:07 AM
 
Location: Raleigh
13,632 posts, read 12,260,114 times
Reputation: 20038
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zippyman View Post
Every deadbeat tenant has a laundry list of problems to air when the rent is late, or they want a deposit back that they lost through misuse or abuse of a property.

You chose the property for a *reason*, and it's only reasonable to assume that it was the best rental available in your price range at the time you picked it. That isn't a "slum" in most cases - are all the homes in that area "slummy"?

The fact that you stayed for seven years also undercuts your story of woe. Either the price reflected the condition, or you're bad at picking rentals. In my market, I can't really rent a "slum"- tenants have choices & if I post a dump for top dollar, it'll sit empty while the tenants choose other rentals. You rented a used house, not a new one, and I highly doubt the rental agreement specified it would be maintained in "perfect" condition throughout your entire tenancy. If it did, you had a valid gripe, -and a good excuse to move, if not, it's all on you, quit whining.
It's one thing to say "I'll pay less to r ent an older, slightly run down place.". It's quite another to ne asked to restore it beyond the conditions in which you rented it, especially factoring in wear and tear.
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