Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
I'm a tenant at the apartment I am living in and the manager is accusing me for over using the water and has taken this to small claims court.
First, I'd like to explain what happened. There was an increase in water usage moving it to tier 2 and which cause a hike in the water bill. So the landlord told the manager of the apartment to check each tenant and see whats going on. (This is what the manager told me when he got to my unit.) Now, on the lease agreement, it says you can't use a washing machine inside your unit, but I had a small washing machine (around 25 gallons per wash) in my bathroom that I've been using for about an year (to be honest) and I obviously got caught.
I'm at fault for breaking the agreement and so I was expecting a warning or a fee of some sort and I was fine with that, but out of nowhere the manager smacks me with a $2500 fine. What he did was he got the last water bill total and subtracted it from the recent water bill total and said that I had to pay the difference. I refused! He was solely accusing me of using $2,500 worth of water in a 20 unit apartment, there could have been a pipe leak somewhere. I called the DWP of Los Angeles and they told me they charged $0.04/gallon. The landlord gets a bill every two months. That's 62,500 gallons of water within a two month period! Also, what's weird is there was never a problem before, I've been using the machine for about a year and it was only just recently there was spike from December to January.
I asked him for the landlords phone number, so I can speak to him directly (the manager was being extremely rude and difficult to talk with), but he kept refusing to give me any sort of contact information. A few weeks later I get a letter for a small claims court case and the manager had filed this small claims. He had filed saying we were the cause of over usage of water and was asking for around $700.
Now that that's over with, here's my question!
Is it OK for the manager to file this claim? Isn't the Landlord the one who should be filing this claim since he is the one responsible for paying for the water bills? This is just what I believe, but I don't even think the manager informed the Landlord about the situation considering how he won't let me speak with the Landlord. The landlord is obligated to pay for the water bill and can't have the tenant pay for that. I think the managers just trying to cash in some money.
I'm sorry for this LONG thread and by no means am I saying that I'm being wrongly accused. I've brought this upon myself, he saw the machine in my unit and there's nothing I can do about it now. I just think how he calculated everything and is only accusing me is kind of weird. What do you guys think?
According to CA law, "A property agent may represent the owner of rental property if the property agent was hired principally to manage the rental of that property and not principally to represent the property owner in small claims court and the claim relates to the rental property. At the hearing, the agent should tell the judge that he or she was hired and is employed principally to manage the property. This statement may also be in a written declaration. A common interest development also may appear and participate in a small claims action through an agent."
The property manager is the representative for the LL; that's what he's paid for, and as far as you need concern yourself with, that's your point of contact. That's why the LL is paying to have a property mgr; they're under no obligation to deal with you. So yes, the property mgr has the right to file the claim.
As for what you think is an excessive fine, that depends on what your lease says. You readily admit you were violating a material clause in your lease for over a year; I'm sure there are penalties stated either in your lease or house rules. You also seem to be arguing your case as if you are privy to the complex's water bills; you don't know whether their bills have been normal or not, or what kind of higher usage would pushed them to tier 2. For all you know, they might have been wondering why their bills were spiking, and now that you've been caught, you're being fingered as the likely culprit. Unless you were shown the previous water bills, how would you know for certain there was never a problem or that the only spike in usage was just recently? You may be correct but the unfortunate reality is that you seem to be the only one caught and now you need to pay the price, which is the chance you took by having an illegal washing machine in your apartment.
Good luck in court but I think you will have a hard time mustering a good defense.
OP, I don't know what will happen in court, but I can tell you that you will save yourself a lot of grief in the future if you carefully read the rental agreement and comply with all the terms.
If there is something in the rental agreement that you can't live with, move on to the next building until you find a place where you can comply with all the terms.
If I were you, I'd start saving money and boxes, just in case your lease is not renewed.
Now, when you go to court it would be a very good idea to have the specs of your machine, a realistic accounting if how ofthen you use it and some calculations of the use. Also, have notes about the varying amounts they have asked for and your discussions with the Water Dept.
Location: East of Seattle since 1992, 615' Elevation, Zone 8b - originally from SF Bay Area
44,570 posts, read 81,147,605 times
Reputation: 57791
I have been in the water utility business for many years, and your washer will not have used anywhere near that amount of water. Something else is going on to cause the high bills, and the LL/Manager are just trying to get you to pay for part of it. I am also in commercial real estate, and violating the terms of the agreement may be grounds for them to evict you. Read your lease, and see if there is a penalty defined. If not, that random amount may not stand up in court since they will not be able to prove your washer used that much water. If it's a fine and it's written into the lease, you will have to pay it. There are many causes for a spike in water use, the most common are a bad reading, break in the main line from the meter to the building, a faulty water heater, several/many faulty toilets, even a recently immigrated tenant that doesn't know the water is billed and leaves faucets running. Removal of your washing machine won't help if they don't fix the real problem.
I'm a tenant at the apartment I am living in and the manager is accusing me for over using the water and has taken this to small claims court.
First, I'd like to explain what happened. There was an increase in water usage moving it to tier 2 and which cause a hike in the water bill. So the landlord told the manager of the apartment to check each tenant and see whats going on. (This is what the manager told me when he got to my unit.) Now, on the lease agreement, it says you can't use a washing machine inside your unit, but I had a small washing machine (around 25 gallons per wash) in my bathroom that I've been using for about an year (to be honest) and I obviously got caught.
I'm at fault for breaking the agreement and so I was expecting a warning or a fee of some sort and I was fine with that, but out of nowhere the manager smacks me with a $2500 fine. What he did was he got the last water bill total and subtracted it from the recent water bill total and said that I had to pay the difference. I refused! He was solely accusing me of using $2,500 worth of water in a 20 unit apartment, there could have been a pipe leak somewhere. I called the DWP of Los Angeles and they told me they charged $0.04/gallon. The landlord gets a bill every two months. That's 62,500 gallons of water within a two month period! Also, what's weird is there was never a problem before, I've been using the machine for about a year and it was only just recently there was spike from December to January.
I asked him for the landlords phone number, so I can speak to him directly (the manager was being extremely rude and difficult to talk with), but he kept refusing to give me any sort of contact information. A few weeks later I get a letter for a small claims court case and the manager had filed this small claims. He had filed saying we were the cause of over usage of water and was asking for around $700.
Now that that's over with, here's my question!
Is it OK for the manager to file this claim? Isn't the Landlord the one who should be filing this claim since he is the one responsible for paying for the water bills? This is just what I believe, but I don't even think the manager informed the Landlord about the situation considering how he won't let me speak with the Landlord. The landlord is obligated to pay for the water bill and can't have the tenant pay for that. I think the managers just trying to cash in some money.
I'm sorry for this LONG thread and by no means am I saying that I'm being wrongly accused. I've brought this upon myself, he saw the machine in my unit and there's nothing I can do about it now. I just think how he calculated everything and is only accusing me is kind of weird. What do you guys think?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sherifftruman
Now, when you go to court it would be a very good idea to have the specs of your machine, a realistic accounting if how ofthen you use it and some calculations of the use. Also, have notes about the varying amounts they have asked for and your discussions with the Water Dept.
This is good advice.
OP, you broke your lease, and for that you could be evicted. The LL chose not to evict you, so that's good. Now you just need to negotiate your "punishment."
If your lease doesn't stipulate the "fine" for over use of water, which I doubt, then you will be relying on what the judge says. Judges are very fair, in my experience, here in small claims court in CA.
So, go to court and take your specs on your washing machine. Also take with you the first demand for a fine of $2500. This, to me, will look suspicious to the judge. The fact that the LL later chose to sue you for $700, shows the LL knew that $2500 wasn't reasonable.
Also take the info from the water department about the cost of water per gallon.
I think you should tell the judge, that yes, you admit you were using a washing machine in your apartment, which is against the terms of your lease. And say you are willing to pay the LL the actual cost of any over-use of water.
But, then, I'd ask the judge how that can be determined? How does the LL know who takes a lot of showers, or which toilets are running and haven't been reported to maintenance (very expensive water usage - when toilets are running), or who lets their water run, or has their family come visit and shower, etc.
Tell the judge, you've brought the specs on your washing machine. That you wash x amount of loads per week, which should amount to x amount of money for the water you used to wash your clothes.
Then, I think you should print this out and also give it to the judge. This shows that a shower can use 30 - 50 gallons of water. Your washer uses 25 gallons, which is less than one shower.
Tell the judge you are willing to pay what the judge thinks is a reasonable estimate for the actual cost of the water you used, above the average for normal use for all of the other units.
The good thing about going to court, is that then it's a done deal. The judge will make a fair decision, in my experience, and then the LL has to accept what the judge says.
After the judge determines the cost of your water usage, (you should get the decision in the mail within a month) then you might want to see if you can negotiate a higher rent, based on what the judge said was your cost/water usage per month, and get permission to keep using your washer. You never know, they may let you keep it and just pay a higher rent for the privilege.
The apt bldg that I managed didn't allow washing machines or portable dishwashers, because the pipes couldn't handle the load. If the upstairs apts used a bunch of water, the lower apts could back up. So, it wasn't even usage so much as that the old system couldn't handle the extra water.
I can tell you from experience, too, that toilets that run can really cause the water bill to spike.
Oh, and yes, the manager is the owner's "agent." That means that they are basically in the owner's shoes. You deal with them as if they are the actual owner.
Good luck. I hope you come back and tell us what the judge said.
I don't how they do it where you are, but on my water bill the price of the water is just one part of the bill. We also get charged for sewer, and that is also based on the amount of water used.
Just to update everyone, we didn't go to the judge to have the problem resolved. It was taken care of by a mediator at the court and only ended up paying a half of what was charged by the manager. I provided the mediator the specs of my machine, how much DWP charges per gallon of water, and all the calculations that I had done and deemed the charge was ridiculously over what would be a reasonable amount to charge.
The manager was fired a couple months after and we have since moved.
Thank you everyone for all your help!
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
. 
. What he did was he got the last water bill total and subtracted it from the recent water bill total and said that I had to pay the difference. I refused! He was solely accusing me of using $2,500 worth of water in a 20 unit apartment, there could have been a pipe leak somewhere. I called the DWP of Los Angeles and they told me they charged $0.04/gallon. The landlord gets a bill every two months. That's 62,500 gallons of water within a two month period! Also, what's weird is there was never a problem before, I've been using the machine for about a year and it was only just recently there was spike from December to January.
!
