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Not too long ago, we signed a lease in a complex that was a little more affordable than some and offered a safer area than some of the other places we've looked at. Before we signed our lease, they mentioned that their management had changed (not a big surprise - this happens all the time with apartment complexes), and that they were getting rid of their Section 8 housing so they no longer take it. It seemed like a lot of residents were not happy about that, and I don't think I would be, either if we were doing Section 8, but I do believe they have been allowed to finish out their leases.
They have been doing an insane amount of work starting about 5 months after we moved in. They are redoing the stairwells, they have redone all the lighting on the property (it's absolutely blinding at night), they have redone the fitness center, they are remodeling the clubhouse, they are giving the main office a complete redo as well, they are repairing cracks and such on the exterior of the buildings, they have installed newer bbq grills on the property, they are upgrading some stuff in the pool area, they plan to install a large play structure for kids, and they are going to give the property a new name and have apparently already ordered the signs. Not only that, but they will be entering apartments to upgrade the kitchen's appliances (I'm not sure if the other units have been outdated in appliances or what, but our stove and fridge are brand new so I'm not sure if they're actually going to toss them out and replace them after only being in use a few months), supposedly new kitchen sinks, new light sockets, and they are going to change out the kitchen and bathroom lights.
When we first moved in, they told us there were washer/dryer hookups and they did not provide washers and dryers and that we must get our own and provided rental companies. So, when we moved in, we bought a used washer/dryer set that has done us well and we are happy with the appliances we got. However, now they are saying that if we're renting a washer and dryer to have them picked up immediately and if we own our washers/dryers that we need to have their maintenance dispose of them at no charge and sign an agreement for this or we dispose of them ourselves (they are asking that we have the machine's removed within 48 hours prior to the scheduled installation date)...it doesn't sound like keeping our own washer and dryer is an option - can they do this? It doesn't sound like they even want other washer and dryers in the unit, even if they aren't in use, but we honestly don't want to have to sell our washer and dryer and possibly end up at a new complex in about 6-7 months with only washer/dryer hookups again and having to fork out another few hundred dollars for another used washer/dryer set. Storage price wouldn't be worth it - it would eventually equal the cost we paid, or more for the washer/dryer. I guess I've never heard of an apartment complex forcing you to use their own washers and dryers, especially if they weren't available at the beginning of your lease.
It seems that they are aiming to have this all finished by April and they've been in a rush to get all of this done. We do live nearby a college and have public transit within walking distance and also with them kicking out Section 8 housing earlier, my husband and I are afraid that they are going to hike the rent to a crazy amount. We've known some people that have rented in a nice area that was affordable for them and then new management comes in and raises rent another few hundred dollars even without upgrading it so we are definitely worried. There have been no notices or anything about changes in rental prices and even if they do, I assume they will have to allow us finish our lease, but I would hate to move again simply because the rent is raised to where we can't afford it, but I guess that's part of this rental game (can't wait to one day be a home owner so we can stop moving so much). The amount of work they are doing is getting so tiring and it's almost a relief they are done with it all...can't wait to not have to worry about power outages, construction/maintenance crews blocking my door, wires laying on the ground, construction/maintenance sometimes deciding to take our parking space and then us having to tell them to move, having us residents have our apartment be prepared a certain way for them to come in and redo fixtures, etc. etc.
I also wonder, if our apartment complex is changing it's name - is this grounds to break a lease if we need to? Are any of these other changes grounds to break a lease if we need to?
The owners are sinking a ton of money into the apartment complex so you can be guaranteed a rent increase at the expiration of your lease.
Your lease is good until expiration no matter who manages or owns the property or what the name of the complex is.
Depending on your state you would generally have to be given 30 days notice of a rent increase (or termination) at expiration of the lease unless your lease says different. Some states require more notice, some less.
Unless they are installing new washer/dryer combos you are free to refuse to get rid of yours. Again, depending on the terms of your lease they aren't likely to be able to do anything about it as long as the lease is still in effect. Just bear in mind, however, that they could just decide to not renew your lease and they wouldn't need a reason.
Bottom line, you have no grounds to break the lease, at least not without serious financial and credit consequences.
The owners are sinking a ton of money into the apartment complex so you can be guaranteed a rent increase at the expiration of your lease.
Your lease is good until expiration no matter who manages or owns the property or what the name of the complex is.
Depending on your state you would generally have to be given 30 days notice of a rent increase (or termination) at expiration of the lease unless your lease says different. Some states require more notice, some less.
Unless they are installing new washer/dryer combos you are free to refuse to get rid of yours. Again, depending on the terms of your lease they aren't likely to be able to do anything about it as long as the lease is still in effect. Just bear in mind, however, that they could just decide to not renew your lease and they wouldn't need a reason.
Bottom line, you have no grounds to break the lease, at least not without serious financial and credit consequences.
Yeah, we've noticed that all of these new things around the property are not cheap. We're almost afraid they're going the luxury homes type of route considering all the stuff they're doing.
Good to know some of that information, and this is Arizona so I'm not sure 100% on some of the stuff since I haven't encountered a complex that puts this much work changing what feels like everything...
To my understanding, they are brand new washer/dryer combos, but also yeah, that's the thing that it feels like with landlords - that they can refuse to renew your lease or choose to terminate your lease if you don't cooperate with their changes. So renting in general honestly bites...
As long as the price stays the same throughout our lease, we'll probably stick with it to avoid of course any major financial consequences (definitely don't need those). Sometimes I know that even if you are allowed out of your lease early no strings attached because of legitimate reason, it sometimes doesn't look good to other apartment complexes, which is ridiculous.
Thinking we should probably make sure we have enough saved up for deposits to move again at the end of our lease to somewhere that will be just as if not more affordable than where we're at.
Your rent won't change until the end of the lease. How far below market rent are you?
How many section 8 tenants? Will management have a lot of vacant apartments after section 8 tenants leave? If there are lots of section 8 vacancies, management might try to hang onto the tenants who are paying their own rent.
I suggest that you save up moving money so you are prepared, just in case. Then if you do get a rent increase, you can decide to pay it or move because you will have the money to move.
It's possible that when you get the rent increase, you won't be able to find anything you like for cheaper.
I'm betting there is going to be an increase, but if you are easy to work with, pay rent on time, and keep your apartment clean, the increase might be carefully calculated to have you decide to stay. I'm thinking they are going to have a lot of vacancies to fill, so might not be eager to get rid of the good tenants.
Yeah, we've noticed that all of these new things around the property are not cheap. We're almost afraid they're going the luxury homes type of route considering all the stuff they're doing.
As of 2015 Phoenix and Tucson had higher vacancy rates than much of the west and southwest. I haven't found more recent figures but I have noticed a lot of new, very large, apartment complexes going in all over Phoenix and, when completed, they all have move in incentives.
Since your complex is doing away with Section 8 I imagine it will have to be by attrition by not renewing Section 8 leases when they expire. Were I the owner I would be renovating the former Section 8 apartments when they get vacated and not while somebody was still in them.
The owners may have to be careful with rent increases if they are competing against brand new buildings with move in incentives.
Quote:
Originally Posted by viridianforest
this is Arizona
Then I strongly recommend that you study the Arizona landlord tenant statutes and be aware of your rights and obligations. This is something every renter should do. You can bet that landlords know them backwards and forwards. The residential statutes start at 13-1301 at:
To my understanding, they are brand new washer/dryer combos,
Well, you bought them used, you can sell them used and buy them used next time you have to. They are cheap enough on Craigslist.
Quote:
Originally Posted by viridianforest
So renting in general honestly bites...
Yes, it does. When I was a renter back in the day I had to move every 6 months to a year to get better deals.
Quote:
Originally Posted by viridianforest
Thinking we should probably make sure we have enough saved up for deposits to move again at the end of our lease to somewhere that will be just as if not more affordable than where we're at.
You should be saving as much money as you can for all sorts of contingencies. A good rule of thumb is to put away 10% of your income (or more) and keep doing it.
By the way, if you don't already have renter's insurance, get some. It's cheap and it's portable.
The term for that is "below market".
And since then you have learned why it was offered at lower rates.
That's how long... another seven months?
What does the lease say about renewal and rate increases?
The lease says that rent increases or changes to the agreement are allowed before the initial lease term ends. That is, unless the changes are allowed by the lease or are on a written addendum signed by both parties, or by reasonable changes of the residential rules.
It mentions that the owner must give residents a written notice of rent increases of lease changes at least 5 days before the advance move-out notice deadline, when they are effective, and when the lease term or renewal period ends.
So I assume this means they are not able to change the rent until after the lease term. Although, they can of course wait until nearly the end of your lease to tell you. I'm sure they're probably not going to scare the residents here with all these positive changes they are super hyped about and then be like, "But your rent will go up with it."
Your rent won't change until the end of the lease. How far below market rent are you?
How many section 8 tenants? Will management have a lot of vacant apartments after section 8 tenants leave? If there are lots of section 8 vacancies, management might try to hang onto the tenants who are paying their own rent.
I suggest that you save up moving money so you are prepared, just in case. Then if you do get a rent increase, you can decide to pay it or move because you will have the money to move.
It's possible that when you get the rent increase, you won't be able to find anything you like for cheaper.
I'm betting there is going to be an increase, but if you are easy to work with, pay rent on time, and keep your apartment clean, the increase might be carefully calculated to have you decide to stay. I'm thinking they are going to have a lot of vacancies to fill, so might not be eager to get rid of the good tenants.
I'm not sure exactly what "below market" is or how to calculate how far below it we may be so I do not know.
The leasing agents mentioned they were evicting Section 8 tenants as of a month or so before we showed up due to change in property management. They also mentioned that they were leaving soon and would be there a bit longer, but the apartment complex would no longer take Section 8 housing. I do not know how many Section 8 tenants there were throughout the property. We do notice quite a few vacant apartments that they have torn everything out of and have redone. Although, I'm not sure how many vacancies are on the property.
Considering we're not exactly a fan of living here for many reasons, we don't have an issue leaving if that's what it will come down to - it's just the move in costs all over again that are a pain. We've already found some cheaper apartment complexes in the area that offer more amenities than we do, but it could be because they will still take Section 8 and such, but I think space would be the main sacrifice with the price, which makes sense.
Didn't think of a management company being eager to keep their good residents, but I guess it does make sense if they have a lot of apartments to fill. I suppose that could be true that they will want to hang onto their good tenants for a while.
The lease says that rent increases or changes to the agreement are allowed before the initial lease term ends. That is, unless the changes are allowed by the lease or are on a written addendum signed by both parties, or by reasonable changes of the residential rules.
It mentions that the owner must give residents a written notice of rent increases of lease changes at least 5 days before the advance move-out notice deadline, when they are effective, and when the lease term or renewal period ends.
So I assume this means they are not able to change the rent until after the lease term. Although, they can of course wait until nearly the end of your lease to tell you. I'm sure they're probably not going to scare the residents here with all these positive changes they are super hyped about and then be like, "But your rent will go up with it."
Would you please see if this is correctly typed? Your first paragraph. Your lease says they can change the terms of the lease before the lease is up? If so, that doesn't make sense.
Normally, the landlord can't just change the terms of the lease agreement in the middle of the lease term. This would include not being able to tell you you can't have your washer and dryer - if your lease says you can have one.
So, they may be just bluffing, hoping you'll just do what they want. You might want to just call their bluff and say, "Sorry, we have a lease and you can't just change the terms."
And, yes, in my experience having lived in the exact same situation you are in, you can expect to be given a hefty rent increase after enduring tons of construction noise, water shut-offs, power outtages, etc.
What you could consider, if you would be willing to move before your lease is up, is to tell them you're not removing anything that your lease says you can have. But, if they want to let you out of your lease and agree to give you your full deposit back, you would be willing to mutually terminate the lease.
My landlord in a subsidized senior apartment building recently gave all tenants a notice saying we'd be evicted if we didn't sign the attached addendum to our leases within 30 days. Um, nope. They can't do that, which I know because I used to be a property manager. So sleazy. They got lots of scared seniors to sign that addendum, which changed the move-out terms regarding security deposit deductions. I told them I have a lease agreement that I'm happy with and I will not be signing their addendum unless they can prove to me that I must legally sign it. And that I was also going to be sending a copy of the notice to the Housing Authority (I have Section 8), since the Housing Authority requires me to give them copies of any eviction notices. They didn't respond and didn't hassle me anymore about it.
But, yep, unfortunately, landlords will try to bluff tenants into giving up their rights. Unless I could see your contract I can't know for sure what's going on. But, any contract must give something to both sides. In other words, if it says they get to change the terms of the agreement mid-stream, they must then give you a benefit in return for that - or that clause simply would not be enforceable in court. Contracts can't be one-sided.
If I was you, I'd first tell them I was not going to be removing a washer and dryer that is allowed in my lease, and I'd start saving to move at the end of my lease, or negotiate to move out sooner if I found a place sooner, unless you think you'd want to stay there and pay more.
As of 2015 Phoenix and Tucson had higher vacancy rates than much of the west and southwest. I haven't found more recent figures but I have noticed a lot of new, very large, apartment complexes going in all over Phoenix and, when completed, they all have move in incentives.
Since your complex is doing away with Section 8 I imagine it will have to be by attrition by not renewing Section 8 leases when they expire. Were I the owner I would be renovating the former Section 8 apartments when they get vacated and not while somebody was still in them.
The owners may have to be careful with rent increases if they are competing against brand new buildings with move in incentives.
Then I strongly recommend that you study the Arizona landlord tenant statutes and be aware of your rights and obligations. This is something every renter should do. You can bet that landlords know them backwards and forwards. The residential statutes start at 13-1301 at:
Well, you bought them used, you can sell them used and buy them used next time you have to. They are cheap enough on Craigslist.
Yes, it does. When I was a renter back in the day I had to move every 6 months to a year to get better deals.
You should be saving as much money as you can for all sorts of contingencies. A good rule of thumb is to put away 10% of your income (or more) and keep doing it.
By the way, if you don't already have renter's insurance, get some. It's cheap and it's portable.
It seems the vacant apartments have been gutted and completely redone (insulation, floors, etc.), and that they are already moving the new stuff into those first from my observations around the property.
I'm not sure if this area would be competing against brand new buildings with move in incentives, but there are other apartments around - not exactly newer, but probably would compete.
Thank you for the landlord tenant statues, I know my husband understands more of these than I do and same with some family members since they've rented out their places to people. Some of it I know vaguely, but I'll explore the statues more in depth.
Yeah, I know we could sell them used. We got ours on Craigslist, but it was hard to find a working washer and dryer at the price we got it for. We would need to look for one probably a bit in advance to make sure we would have one. I hate using onsite laundry facilities, it's just so tiring lugging around all the laundry with small children in tow (especially if the laundry facility isn't close).
Saving money hasn't been easy...been running into a lot of unexpected bills, owed debts, and such. Building it up as quick as we can again, but the process has been slow. So it's another reason we're concerned, but we'll figure it out.
Renter's insurance was required at our complex so we had to get it. Although, we usually keep it anyway since it isn't that expensive and gives a lot of peace of mind.
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