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Old 09-06-2018, 06:16 PM
 
Location: California
20 posts, read 15,943 times
Reputation: 15

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So I just went over and look at my mail, and unfortunately I threw away the envelope with the tracking number and stamp dated, because I didn’t know it would come to this, luckily I have email setup and the tracking # was saved. .

Anyways the tracking dated that the postage was mailed on the 27th of August I didn’t receive until 28th, and I last day was the 5th. So from the 5th -27th, that’s 22 days, a day over the California 21 day rule.

Does this mean I could bring them to court also for this, though I don’t have the envelope but does have the tracking # and when it was dropped and delievered?
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Old 09-06-2018, 06:30 PM
 
Location: Long Island, NY
1,898 posts, read 2,808,573 times
Reputation: 2558
The clock on the 21day law starts the day after you move out.
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Old 09-06-2018, 07:59 PM
 
Location: North Idaho
32,497 posts, read 47,468,261 times
Reputation: 77745
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChiYou View Post
.......... I clean everything else to better than when I moved in?
Every tenant, no exception, claims to leave the rental better than when they moved in,. The judge hears that at every case, no matter what the condition photos look like. So, if you want the judge to know for sure that you left the apartment better than it was when you moved in, you are going to have to present clear move-in and move-out photos that prove your position, not just make a verbal claim about good cleaning.

The landlord also has to present proof. The judge will look at both sides and then the judge will decide.
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Old 09-06-2018, 10:58 PM
 
Location: California
20 posts, read 15,943 times
Reputation: 15
Quote:
Originally Posted by reenzz View Post
The clock on the 21day law starts the day after you move out.
So it starts the 6th(day after I move out, the 5th) as the first day? If it’s starts the 6th day as I move out though I only lived to the 5th, the 6th - 27th would still be within the 21 days then.

Last edited by ChiYou; 09-06-2018 at 11:07 PM..
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Old 09-06-2018, 11:02 PM
 
Location: California
20 posts, read 15,943 times
Reputation: 15
So I went over my lease clearly again, and notice there was a paragraph of pre move out inspection request.

So since they never gave me any move out inspection option as a inform letter, but it is in the lease agreement, does that count as they already gave me notice?

Nonetheless, if that does count as a option of notice, why did they refuse to do a inspection with me before I move out. O. Two occasion “we don’t do move out”, and another when I went to dispute the disagreement and stated this is why I wanted a move out walkthrough, and another agent told me clearly “yea, we don’t do that with tenant.”

So what am I getting wrong here...? There is no prove they said that if they lied they didn’t like how the manager lied I never requested a move out inspection, when I clearly as her twice, then this all comes down to “he said, she said.” Sigh.
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Old 09-06-2018, 11:11 PM
 
Location: California
20 posts, read 15,943 times
Reputation: 15
Quote:
Originally Posted by oregonwoodsmoke View Post
Every tenant, no exception, claims to leave the rental better than when they moved in,. The judge hears that at every case, no matter what the condition photos look like. So, if you want the judge to know for sure that you left the apartment better than it was when you moved in, you are going to have to present clear move-in and move-out photos that prove your position, not just make a verbal claim about good cleaning.

The landlord also has to present proof. The judge will look at both sides and then the judge will decide.
You are correct and I hate to claim such claims, but what I meant was that when I moved I., the environment was not habitable due to sever sewer pipe leaking throughout the floor and wall of the master bedroom for 2 months. A lot of stuff they said they would fix never were fix. And I thought it would just carry over as it did to me, but turn out they may want to use my $ for cleaning to new tenant, I would assume.
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Old 09-08-2018, 02:11 PM
 
Location: Riverside Ca
22,146 posts, read 33,231,997 times
Reputation: 35433
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChiYou View Post
So I went over my lease clearly again, and notice there was a paragraph of pre move out inspection request.

So since they never gave me any move out inspection option as a inform letter, but it is in the lease agreement, does that count as they already gave me notice?

Nonetheless, if that does count as a option of notice, why did they refuse to do a inspection with me before I move out. O. Two occasion “we don’t do move out”, and another when I went to dispute the disagreement and stated this is why I wanted a move out walkthrough, and another agent told me clearly “yea, we don’t do that with tenant.”

So what am I getting wrong here...? There is no prove they said that if they lied they didn’t like how the manager lied I never requested a move out inspection, when I clearly as her twice, then this all comes down to “he said, she said.” Sigh.
Well there is no need to give you a notice like a letter. It’s in the lease. That IS your notice.

You did not put your request in writing. You did not take pics of the property when you received it. You can take them to court but you need evidence.
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Old 09-08-2018, 06:50 PM
 
Location: Silicon Valley
18,813 posts, read 32,274,906 times
Reputation: 38559
NO. The initial inspection letter has to be given to the tenant AFTER the tenant gives written notice to move out. That is the law.

Landlords put that into leases to try and bluff tenants on this very issue. But, the law is clear that they must give you the initial inspection letter, which must contain your rights in the letter - before you move out. And the landlord must do an initial inspection, if you ask for one.
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Old 09-08-2018, 07:03 PM
 
Location: Silicon Valley
18,813 posts, read 32,274,906 times
Reputation: 38559
Here is the California Dept of Consumer Affairs book on your rights:

http://www.hcd.ca.gov/manufactured-m...t-Landlord.pdf

The section on initial inspections begins on page 55 of the handbook.

Here are some sections from the handbook:

Landlord’s notice

The landlord must give the tenant written notice of the tenant’s right to request an initial
inspection of the rental and to be present during the inspection. The landlord must give this
notice to the tenant a “reasonable time” after either the landlord or the tenant has given the
other written notice of intent to terminate (end) the tenancy (see pages 49–52 and 67–69). If
the tenant has a lease, the landlord must give the tenant this notice a “reasonable time” before
the lease ends. If the tenant does not request an initial inspection, the landlord does not have
any other duties with respect to the initial inspection.

Scheduling the inspection

When the tenant requests an initial inspection, the landlord and the tenant must try to agree
on a mutually convenient date and time for the inspection. The inspection cannot be scheduled
earlier than two weeks before the end of the tenancy or lease term. In any event, the inspection
should be scheduled to allow the tenant ample time to perform repairs or do cleaning identified
during the initial inspection.226 The landlord must give the tenant at least 48 hours’ advance
written notice of the date and time of the inspection whether or not the parties have agreed to
a date and time for the inspection. The landlord is not required to give the 48-hour notice to the
tenant if:

• The parties have not agreed on a date and time, and the tenant no longer wants the
inspection; or

• The landlord and tenant have agreed in writing to waive (give up) the 48-hour notice
requirement.


Itemized statement

   The landlord or the landlord’s agent may perform the inspection if the tenant is not present,
unless the tenant has previously withdrawn the request for inspection.

   Based on the inspection, the landlord or agent must prepare an itemized statement of
repairs or cleaning that the landlord or agent believes the tenant should perform in order to avoid
deductions from the tenant’s security deposit. The landlord or agent must give the statement to
the tenant if the tenant is present for the inspection, or leave it inside the unit if the tenant is not
present. The landlord or agent also must give the tenant a copy of the sections of California’s
security deposit statute that list lawful uses of tenants’ security deposits.

   The security deposit statute has the effect of limiting the kinds of repairs or cleaning that
the landlord or agent may properly include in the itemized statement. Because of this statute,
the landlord cannot, for example, use the tenant’s security deposit to repair damages or correct
defects in the rental that existed when the tenant moved in or that are the result of ordinary wear
and tear.230 Since the landlord cannot use the tenant’s deposit to correct these kinds of defects,
the landlord or agent cannot list them in the itemized statement.

   Before the tenancy ends, the tenant may make the repairs or do the cleaning described in
the itemized statement, as allowed by the rental agreement, in order to avoid deductions from the
deposit.  However, the tenant cannot be required to repair defects or do cleaning if the tenant’s
security deposit could not be used properly to pay for that repair or cleaning.

Final inspection

   The landlord may perform a final inspection after the tenant has moved out of the rental. The
landlord may make a deduction from the tenant’s security deposit to repair a defect or correct a
condition:

• That was identified in the inspection statement and that the tenant did not repair or correct; or,

• That occurred after the initial inspection; or

• That was not identified during the initial inspection due to the presence of the tenant’s
possessions.

Any deduction must be reasonable in amount, and must be for a purpose permitted by
the security deposit statute.233 Twenty-one calendar days (or less) after the tenancy ends, the
landlord must refund any portion of the security deposit that remains after the landlord has made
any lawful deductions (see pages 24–26, 53–54)
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Old 09-08-2018, 07:34 PM
 
Location: Silicon Valley
18,813 posts, read 32,274,906 times
Reputation: 38559
You're also right that he didn't "send" your deposit letter within the 21 day limit. 22 days is not 21. So, he broke that law. According to the law, this alone means he can't keep any of your deposit.

From the handbook:

What if the landlord doesn’t provide a full
refund, or a statement of deductions and a
refund of amounts not deducted, by the end of
the 21-day period as required by law? According
to a California Supreme Court decision, the
landlord loses the right to keep any of the
security deposit and must return the entire
deposit to you.

Also, by law, they need to provide you with receipts for the work they did and supplies they had to buy, since the total was more than $126 - or - you waived your right to receive them. BUT, you can't waive this right any sooner than 60 days before you move out, and the landlord has to give you a notice that explains your rights to receive receipts in a written waiver that you sign. Which of course you didn't and the landlord didn't do this right either, if he just stuck it in the lease somewhere.

The deductions must all be reasonable, and the hourly labor must be reasonable if their own employees do the work.

Basically, it's my opinion you will get your full deposit back, because the landlord didn't follow the laws. You would win on that alone. Judges have to follow the law.

But, the judge would also see that the deductions were not reasonable. And that the landlord refused to do an inspection that you requested.

It's my opinion, you might even be able to get punitive damages. If a landlord doesn't deal in good faith, the judge can award you punitive damages:

If you prove to the court that the landlord
acted in “bad faith” in refusing to return your
security deposit, the court can order the landlord
to pay you the amount of the improperly withheld
deposit, plus up to twice the amount of the
security deposit as a “bad faith” penalty. The
court can award a bad faith penalty in addition to
actual damages whenever the facts of the case
warrant—even if the tenant has not requested
the penalty.

So, if I was you, I'd send them a demand letter for your full deposit because they didn't follow CA laws and have dealt with you in bad faith, and if you don't receive the rest of your deposit by _______ (give them a week max), you're going to sue them in small claims court for the amount they withheld, your court costs and punitive damages of twice your deposit amount. And then, if they don't do it, go to court and if you don't know how to present your case I would just say:

Your Honor, I believe the landlord withheld my security deposit money in bad faith. He also didn't follow the laws regarding my request for an initial inspection, nor the 21 day requirement to mail my security deposit to me, nor the receipts for the deductions as required by law, and the deductions are unreasonable. And according to the law, they must refund my money because they didn't follow these laws. And since they didn't deal with me in good faith, you are also allowed to give me punitive damages of twice my security deposit, and my court fees.

And then I'd hand the clerk to give to the judge a printout of the CA Dept of Consumer Affairs handbook from the link I gave you, if you're not comfortable figuring out which codes you should quote. Small claims court is casual and you're not supposed to be expected to be a lawyer. It doesn't hurt, though, to be able to hand the judge a copy of the law to make it easy for him/her.

Go get em. They deserve it.
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