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Well, from the time we stopped going back and forth over it and was told I'd get a new range will be 8 days. That's certainly not awful, although when I bought a new washer/dryer a couple of months ago, it only took 2 days. So, it could potentially have happened sooner, but it's in a reasonable window.
The big slow down, of course, was due to a lack of follow through and the back and forth negotiating over fault. The glass broke on a Sunday 9/16. We contacted the property manager on Monday. She said she'd get back to us. She still hadn't gotten back to us by the following Monday 9/24. So, we contacted her again, at which point she said the landlord was claiming tenant negligence. My wife sent her some pictures and links on Tuesday, and I sent her a lengthy email on Wednesday 9/26. She replied back to me that she had sent my email on to the landlord for consideration.
On Monday afternoon, 10/1, she let us know that they would send out their appliance repair person to check things out on Tuesday 10/2. He came out Tuesday afternoon, looked it over, contacted the PM, then let us know that PM said they'd replace the range as it was cost prohibitive to fix it. Never mind that we could have skipped this step. I had already informed them in the email what the replacement materials would cost, the online research of the average lifespan of a range, what several used ranges were going for on Craigslist, and the prices of a couple of new range options ($140 for materials only to fix a 13-year-old range, $50+ for a used range, or $450-$500 for a new one). On Wednesday afternoon, the PM contacted us letting us know she had ordered the range to be delivered the following Wednesday 10/10.
So, you see there was a lot of wasted time in there. I realize the landlord and property manager have other duties, and we're not the only thing they have to worry about. I also understand this is a crazy, somewhat rare thing that happened that the landlord has probably never heard of and wanted to claim tenant negligence and wipe his hands of the matter. I probably would have felt the same myself. However, at each step of the way, as you can see, there was a lack of timely follow through from the PM. This definitely could have been done in about 14 days if the PM got back with us in an appropriate amount of time at each step.
If my tenants aren’t abusive and i have no reason to believe that they maliciously destroyed a appliance I’ll just fix it or if it’s old and not worth repairing I’ll replace it
Are there many landlords like you in that area? From a landlord perspective, I could see how that could clear up a lot of headaches. I haven't seen a single rental in my area, though, that doesn't include appliances.
No, this is not the norm in the SF Bay Area. Other than UltraRunner's posts about how he handles his rentals, I've never heard of a rental that didn't include appliances here. I believe him, but it's not common.
Most of the residential portfolio is single family now... with a few plexes... the last 20+ years I have been transitioning to commercial property.
That said... I still have a few legacy tenants... some from the 80's with appliances included...
I would say it is maybe 50/50 here in my Oakland market segment among those I know.
The market is tight and has been for sometime.
If someone truly doesn't have a stove or refrigerator... I have been known to give them one... as long as the lease is clear I am not responsible.
Here are a few examples of why...
Fourth of July and refrigerator "Quits"... tenant claims $400 spoiled meat...
After investigation I learn it was a power outage affecting 2 blocks...
Thanksgiving morning... get frantic call oven is broken... rush over and find the tenant had cleaned the over the night before and broke the oven temperature sensor wire...
Had a newer smooth top range... tenant calls and said the top is broken... just happened.
Come over and shake my head... unit is just out of warranty and the top is expensive... tenant said she needs an oven and wants it replaced/fixed ASAP...
Her 5 year old then said I told Alfonse not to climb on top of the stove to get the cereal... Alfonse is 3 and he was standing on it when it broke.
Also... refrigerators... some never clean and food blocks the bottom condensate drain and get a call the refrigerator is leaking...
The common theme is each of these took time... some on holidays and not one was anyway my responsibility... but, I was involved because I furnished the appliance.
For me it was a no brainer... 50% of service calls eliminated simply by no longer furnishing appliances..
Some are really hard on refrigerators... managed an apartment building and did a bulk refrigerator buy... also bought one for my Grandmother... some did not last a year and some 5 years later were perfect.
The ones that did not last a year worked.. but had broken handles, door liners and shelf components plus crisper trays...
On a side note... 2009-12 I picked up some that had lost homes through foreclosure... these tenants had some very nice refrigerators... one even had a sub-zero... the would have had me remove stove and refrigerator if one was there...
Most of the residential portfolio is single family now... with a few plexes... the last 20+ years I have been transitioning to commercial property.
That said... I still have a few legacy tenants... some from the 80's with appliances included...
I would say it is maybe 50/50 here in my Oakland market segment among those I know.
The market is tight and has been for sometime.
If someone truly doesn't have a stove or refrigerator... I have been known to give them one... as long as the lease is clear I am not responsible.
Here are a few examples of why...
Fourth of July and refrigerator "Quits"... tenant claims $400 spoiled meat...
After investigation I learn it was a power outage affecting 2 blocks...
Thanksgiving morning... get frantic call oven is broken... rush over and find the tenant had cleaned the over the night before and broke the oven temperature sensor wire...
Had a newer smooth top range... tenant calls and said the top is broken... just happened.
Come over and shake my head... unit is just out of warranty and the top is expensive... tenant said she needs an oven and wants it replaced/fixed ASAP...
Her 5 year old then said I told Alfonse not to climb on top of the stove to get the cereal... Alfonse is 3 and he was standing on it when it broke.
Also... refrigerators... some never clean and food blocks the bottom condensate drain and get a call the refrigerator is leaking...
The common theme is each of these took time... some on holidays and not one was anyway my responsibility... but, I was involved because I furnished the appliance.
For me it was a no brainer... 50% of service calls eliminated simply by no longer furnishing appliances..
Some are really hard on refrigerators... managed an apartment building and did a bulk refrigerator buy... also bought one for my Grandmother... some did not last a year and some 5 years later were perfect.
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The ones that did not last a year worked.. but had broken handles, door liners and shelf components plus crisper trays...
On a side note... 2009-12 I picked up some that had lost homes through foreclosure... these tenants had some very nice refrigerators... one even had a sub-zero... the would have had me remove stove and refrigerator if one was there...
It makes complete sense why a landlord would not supply appliances, but I don't think most tenants can afford to buy their own appliances, or that a tenant on today's market would even consider renting a place that didn't supply them.
For me, for instance, as I'm now a tenant. I'd have to weigh the cost of buying a stove/oven and refrigerator along with the cost of the rent. And, I'd have to think in terms of - what if I decide to move - how much can I sell my used appliances for?
I honestly can't imagine a scenario where any rental in the SF Bay Area would be cheap enough - even if it didn't include appliances - to justify me buying my own refrigerator and oven/stovetop.
Plus, I'd have to think in terms of - what if something happened with these appliances, that a landlord might be able to charge me for - from my deposit.
For instance, what if my used refrigerator that I bought on Craigslist leaked on the floor? That would be on me - as well as the cost of the actual refrigerator.
What if my oven smoked? So, I not only have to buy the stove, but the landlord can deduct the cost of smoke damage from an old oven that I bought?
In other words, in my personal experience, there is no way I'd rent from a landlord who required me to purchase my own appliances - who also could also hold me responsible for any leaks, smoke, and any other damage resulting from the appliances that they also required me to buy.
Now, from a landlord's perspective - sure, it sounds like a great deal. From a tenant's perspective - not so much.
I have had one year tenants that went to Rent A Center...
Also, a lot of tenants are very resourceful... my newest tenants showed me a range and refrigerator they picked up... only 3 years old and they paid $250... the catch was they had to pick them up that day as the sellers had sold their condo and the new owners put in the contract they wanted them gone...
When I managed apartments... I was basically stuck being in the applicance business... most apartments could only accomodate a 30" wide box and a 30" range... so for the refigerator... that meant under 15 cuft...
More than half my tenants get Free refrigerators... there are PGE programs that provide Free refrigerators and haul away the old one... available only if the electric bill is in tenants name.
A few months ago, one of the legacy tenants was tired of not having ice and water in the door... I never provide them and I don't have one in my own home...
They went and bought a 25 cuft floor model and left me a message afer the fact saying they would have my refrigerator in the driveway as they have a new one.
Looking back... and it has only been a short time... the LG has needed two service calls and 100% dominates the kitchen... it is huge... had to take it apart and remove the door jambs to get in in place...
Now they are asking for a new kitchen floor which I am agreeable but my installer said the kitchen has to been empty to put down the new floor... my tenants said they have no way to move the refrigerator and it took two delivery men more than an hour to install...
Anyway... I took $5 off there rent to reflect I am no longer providing a refrigerator...
What I did suggest is a small chest freezer which is very cheap... like $200 on sale and can store a lot... they would have been better keeping my refrigerator and buying a small chest freezer and be a $1000 ahead...
Nothing is set in concrete... there could very well be a time of high vacancy when I would need to add amenities...
Well, in CA, appliances are not required for the unit to be habitable. So, they're not legally required.
It would just be a matter of whether or not you could find desirable tenants if you didn't supply them.
I would wonder, though, about a tenant buying an old unit that leaked all over the floors or might start a fire, etc. I think I'd rather have more control over what was installed.
Kind of the 80-20 rule... took me a while to see where I spending a lot of time and even muscle... and then figuring a way to eliminate it without taking a hit.
I do tend to have longevity in single family rentals... 30 years is my longest... rented to her Mother who was a fine woman... and now her daughter has the home.
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