Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
I am located in California if that makes any difference.
Looking for advice.
A tenant I had for 3 years just moved out today. We noticed the patio table and 4 chairs that was in the unit (in the backyard) was removed. I kindly reminded him that these items were part of the home and should be returned. He flipped out, yelling, saying he bought the set from Costco and it belonged to him. I attempted to calm him down and said, I can show you pictures (with date stamps) that show the patio table and 4 chairs were on the property before he took tenancy. He said fine, show me. So I did. I have multiple pictures taken 2 months before he moved in showing the patio table/chairs in the backyard. He SCREAMED at me. Basically accusing me of faking the pictures.
So I took it a step further and emailed him a original listing. The listing he replied to when he first made contact with me. That listing was dated 9/3/2016. I then pointed out on his signed lease agreement that his tenancy started in November 2016. I kindly pointed out from the listing the picture of the patio table and chairs.
His last reply to me was "Please take the steps you deem necessary. I will response as I see appropriate."
I think at this point he know he is wrong but to stubborn to admit he is wrong. This actually fits his personality from what I have gathered over the last 3 years. For the most part, it was a good tenant. Paid rent on time, kept the place clean, etc. He is on the older side and pretty much conforms to the 'grumpy old man' persona. He is not someone I would expect to maturely realize his mistake and work with my to make things right. You know, like an adult.
So my question is what do I do?
The patio table/chairs were gifted to me so I didn't pay for the set so I am not technically out any real money. Since I am not out any money, can I legally deduct the cost of a new set from his security deposit?
He is retired and I know if I withhold any amount from his security deposit he will sue me in court for it. While I am 100% sure I will win with the proof I have, I am not sure if this is something I want to deal with for an item I never actually bought.
I try to be a "good landlord" and I tend to have units with some amenities. Things like furnishing the place with a fridge, washer/dryer, ceiling fans, etc. With this home, I had an extra patio set that did not fit in my personal home so I figured why not let my tenants enjoy it. I guess I need to stop being a nice guy.
What does the lease say about how the unit must be left? Regardless of the value of the set, your tenant did not leave the property in the same condition he rented it in. That would not be expected "wear and tear". Furnishings/equipment you supplied for a tenant's use were removed (stolen). Wouldn't you do something if he removed the stove? The refrigerator? The ceiling fans?
The reason to pursue it (by withholding his deposit or whatever) doesn't depend on who bought the set, its because he didn't leave his unit in the expected condition. You have what you need to withhold the deposit. If he threatens to fight to get it back call his bluff. He's not going to win. Why let him slide because he's being an aggressive jerk? He may have pulled this sort of thing before. Convince him it's not going to work this time.
Last edited by Parnassia; 09-01-2019 at 12:51 AM..
You didn't pay for them but you have lost the value of them. Write a letter or have a lawyer write him a letter stating he must return them immediately or the cost will be deducted from his deposit. With your other proof that you own this table and chair set, I doubt he would win a lawsuit against you.
I do not like his statement: do what you have to do. It feels to me to be a control tactic, seemingly daring you to take action.
My lease does state the property must be left in the same condition before he rented it. The problem I am having is how to I assign a dollar value to something when I don’t have actual monetary losses?
His last reply to be is basically a big “F U” and I would love nothing more than to shove that in his face. At the same time, being a landlord is not my full time job so that mean taking time to deal with this issue takes my resources away from my actual job.
I want to make sure I am making a good business decision and not a knee jerk reaction. If I withhold $300 for a replacement patio set, he then in turns sues me. We go to court and I win based on the proof I have. But how much did going to court cost me? Legal fees? Am I fighting based on pride, because I am right? Or does this fight make good business sense?
I have been a landlord for only about 6 years now and I can honestly say this is the first negative experience I have had to date. Maybe I have been lucky. I hate backing down to someone clearly being a bully but even large companies will settle out of court because some things are not worth fighting over.
My lease does state the property must be left in the same condition before he rented it. The problem I am having is how to I assign a dollar value to something when I don’t have actual monetary losses?
His last reply to be is basically a big “F U†and I would love nothing more than to shove that in his face. At the same time, being a landlord is not my full time job so that mean taking time to deal with this issue takes my resources away from my actual job.
I want to make sure I am making a good business decision and not a knee jerk reaction. If I withhold $300 for a replacement patio set, he then in turns sues me. We go to court and I win based on the proof I have. But how much did going to court cost me? Legal fees? Am I fighting based on pride, because I am right? Or does this fight make good business sense?
I have been a landlord for only about 6 years now and I can honestly say this is the first negative experience I have had to date. Maybe I have been lucky. I hate backing down to someone clearly being a bully but even large companies will settle out of court because some things are not worth fighting over.
Very torn here.
I hear you. Time is money. Is it worth your attention and aggravation? Only you can decide that.
Are there other tenants in this building that I had access to this table and chairs? Weigh the choices of doing nothing and just not provide this amenity or replacing it and having a nicer rental unit.
Another way to look at this is it's a learning lesson. In the future you may have a bigger issue that cannot be overlooked. Consider this situation a time to learn the ins-and-outs/ the steps you need to do to resolve this. Seek assistance/ counsel to handle this properly. The more you know about your business, the better when were you will be.
I hear you. Time is money. Is it worth your attention and aggravation? Only you can decide that.
Are there other tenants in this building that I had access to this table and chairs? Weigh the choices of doing nothing and just not provide this amenity or replacing it and having a nicer rental unit.
Another way to look at this is it's a learning lesson. In the future you may have a bigger issue that cannot be overlooked. Consider this situation a time to learn the ins-and-outs/ the steps you need to do to resolve this. Seek assistance/ counsel to handle this properly. The more you know about your business, the better when were you will be.
It was a single family home with a single tenant.
This is a big learning lesson indeed. Because of this, the next time one of our units is vacant, my wife wants to sell the fridge and washer/dryer and any new tenants can bring their own. While I don’t think I am there just yet, I completely understand why some units have no amenities.
Edit: One more thing my wife wants to change. We start increasing rent on tenants annually. The average right now for all our rental units has been about a 3 to 4 year tenancy. I always feel a constantly occupied unit is better than having to deal with turnover and possibly a month or more of vacancy. So for me, If my tenant pays on time, treats the property well, doesn’t break things requiring me to pay to fix it, I don’t increase rent during their tenancy. Where we live, rent prices can increase $100/month or more per year based on the market. This might have been an easier pill to swallow if we were making an extra $1200 to $2400 a year on this tenant. Oh well, another lesson learned and I might have to agree with my wife on this one.
make sure you have landlord insurance and not using homeowners.. while you are not putting a claim in , it is a good time to make sure you the right insurance before something major happens ..the two are very different in the way they handle theft and vandalism issues
I agree with your wife, up to a point. I would expect a rental to include a refrigerator, but not a washer and dryer. The more appliances you provide, the more things you are responsible for fixing.
A long term good tenant is like gold, and I would be reluctant to raise the rent unless absolutely necessary. My son has this situation. He has had the same tenant for over 5 years. The tenant takes great care of the house and yard. My son makes a couple of hundred a month, and so does not raise the rent unless the taxes go up.
Value the patio set by finding what it would have cost to buy it new originally. Then deduct that entire amount from the security deposit, and return the deposit if any left according to law. In other words, if he hasn't given you a forwarding address, send it to the unit return receipt requested, certified. He knows he'll lose because you have evidence. He knows he'll lose his filing costs. Also, you could contact your local police department, too. If you're a small town, and they're not too busy, they might help you out. This wasn't wear and tear or negligence. This was outright theft, and even though you have proved it to him, he's refusing to return it.
I am located in California if that makes any difference.
Looking for advice.
A tenant I had for 3 years just moved out today. We noticed the patio table and 4 chairs that was in the unit (in the backyard) was removed. I kindly reminded him that these items were part of the home and should be returned. He flipped out, yelling, saying he bought the set from Costco and it belonged to him. I attempted to calm him down and said, I can show you pictures (with date stamps) that show the patio table and 4 chairs were on the property before he took tenancy. He said fine, show me. So I did. I have multiple pictures taken 2 months before he moved in showing the patio table/chairs in the backyard. He SCREAMED at me. Basically accusing me of faking the pictures.
So I took it a step further and emailed him a original listing. The listing he replied to when he first made contact with me. That listing was dated 9/3/2016. I then pointed out on his signed lease agreement that his tenancy started in November 2016. I kindly pointed out from the listing the picture of the patio table and chairs.
His last reply to me was "Please take the steps you deem necessary. I will response as I see appropriate."
I think at this point he know he is wrong but to stubborn to admit he is wrong. This actually fits his personality from what I have gathered over the last 3 years. For the most part, it was a good tenant. Paid rent on time, kept the place clean, etc. He is on the older side and pretty much conforms to the 'grumpy old man' persona. He is not someone I would expect to maturely realize his mistake and work with my to make things right. You know, like an adult.
So my question is what do I do?
The patio table/chairs were gifted to me so I didn't pay for the set so I am not technically out any real money. Since I am not out any money, can I legally deduct the cost of a new set from his security deposit?
He is retired and I know if I withhold any amount from his security deposit he will sue me in court for it. While I am 100% sure I will win with the proof I have, I am not sure if this is something I want to deal with for an item I never actually bought.
I try to be a "good landlord" and I tend to have units with some amenities. Things like furnishing the place with a fridge, washer/dryer, ceiling fans, etc. With this home, I had an extra patio set that did not fit in my personal home so I figured why not let my tenants enjoy it. I guess I need to stop being a nice guy.
Thoughts?
Just want to quickly say that those items you listed as amenities aren’t really amenities. A ceiling fan is not an amenity. Fridge? I know some places a fridge is not always present in a rental but I wouldn’t call it an amenity. Washer and dryer, sure, but in most places I’ve lived we have been able to take our own (which is similar to a fridge in some areas, although none I’ve ever lived). You’re not really being a nice guy for providing that is my point, unless this is very atypical for your area, which would seem super odd to me.
Honestly the patio set was probably near the end of its life unless it was really nice. Tenants don’t maintain things the way a homeowner does and if you live in an area with a lot of humidity, the fabric on patio furniture can get mildewed very quickly. The plastic can wear out from the sun. Glass ones can last much longer if maintained.
He should not have taken it, and it does sound like you caught him in a lie. How much do you deem it to be worth if you make a claim on his deposit? I know CA is super tenant friendly so if it’s not worth much anyway, I would let it go. The hassle of court isn’t worth it for a couple hundred bucks. You may never be able to collect that money anyway (unless it’s just taken from his deposit - any other claims you need to make?).
It doesn’t matter if you paid for it or not. Are you unable to find something comparable to help you assign a monetary figure to it?
Last edited by AndreaTownsley; 09-01-2019 at 04:59 AM..
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
