No deposit or itemization 21 days later? (apartments, tenant, security deposit, inspection)
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Because I can't remember, I just recently moved out of a property 12/31. I told the landlord I didn't have time to do a deep clean or wash the carpets, we did a pre-move out inspection and they said everything looked okay, no major damage. We also repainted my son's room. With emails of me requesting the exact paint brand, type, and color. The carpets were VERY old and fading, the windows were old, the blinds old, etc. This was a property managed by a company. I've never lost more than $150-200 of my deposit. Our deposit was $2200.
On 1/24 I emailed asking when I would expect to receive the deposit back, I received a response the next day back saying "An itemized list was mailed out 1/21."
I was surprised and I thought "an itemized list?" There is NO WAY we caused $2200 worth of damages... And all I can think is because we made them do a lot of repairs after moving in they are trying to get money back. Those repairs include 1- fixing a broken water heater (you couldn't even take a shower) 2- putting in a WORKING heating system (they had shut off the electrical panel for the heaters- like they hoped I'd just shrug and not request they put a heating system in the home?) 3- replacing the broken toilet downstairs (the tank was cracked and it took me a few days to figure out why there was water constantly behind the tank) 4- replacing the leaking faucet in the downstairs bathroom (it was so old it was corroded underneath) 5- properly installing the upstairs shower handles 6- resealing the deck (the deck had the wrong wood used to put it and it rained for 7 months straight when we first moved in so afterwards we couldn't even WALK on the deck without getting splinters), and so on.
So I waited to see what this list was and now it's 1/29 and STILL no list or deposit.
(g) (1) No later than 21 calendar days after the tenant has vacated the premises, but not earlier than the time that either the landlord or the tenant provides a notice to terminate the tenancy under Section 1946 or 1946.1, Section 1161 of the Code of Civil Procedure, or not earlier than 60 calendar days prior to the expiration of a fixed-term lease, the landlord shall furnish the tenant, by personal delivery or by first-class mail, postage prepaid, a copy of an itemized statement indicating the basis for, and the amount of, any security received and the disposition of the security, and shall return any remaining portion of the security to the tenant. After either the landlord or the tenant provides notice to terminate the tenancy, the landlord and tenant may mutually agree to have the landlord deposit any remaining portion of the security deposit electronically to a bank account or other financial institution designated by the tenant. After either the landlord or the tenant provides notice to terminate the tenancy, the landlord and the tenant may also agree to have the landlord provide a copy of the itemized statement along with the copies required by paragraph (2) to an email account provided by the tenant.
Am I within my rights now to request the entire deposit returned? They are 10-15 miles away from my house... They have had my new address since before 12/1 (I gave notice in November).
I looked up their YELP they have terrible reviews and people fighting them to get their deposits back and so on... I think this is what they do... just hope people give up...
I was going to send this email:
PM company,
It is now 1/29, I vacated and returned keys 12/31. Your office was closed and opened back up 1/2. The ad for the property listed the unit as available on 1/10, by my count the unit was ready for a new tenant within 5-6 business days after the holiday. California Civil Code Section 1950.5 states that I am to receive my deposit and/or an itemized list with receipts for any deductions by 1/21. I reached out 1/24 asking and was told the "itemized list" was mailed out 1/21. I am now requesting my entire deposit back since you are 8 days late from the required time. Please send to the address that I have emailed 11/28/2019 and 1/24/2020. Thank you.
If I can't request the full deposit at this point I'll alter the letter.
Yes, you have the right to demand your full deposit back since the LL has not complied with the statute. However, you didn't read far enough. Paragraph (l) allows for double damages if the landlord acts in bad faith:
Quote:
(l) The bad faith claim or retention by a landlord or the landlord’s successors in interest of the security or any portion thereof in violation of this section, or the bad faith demand of replacement security in violation of subdivision (j), may subject the landlord or the landlord’s successors in interest to statutory damages of up to twice the amount of the security, in addition to actual damages. The court may award damages for bad faith whenever the facts warrant that award, regardless of whether the injured party has specifically requested relief. In an action under this section, the landlord or the landlord’s successors in interest shall have the burden of proof as to the reasonableness of the amounts claimed or the authority pursuant to this section to demand additional security deposits.
If he fails to respond to your demand, that's evidence of bad faith and you sue him for double the amount of the deposit.
Say they send a check with itemized list for a partial amount, what do I do? Just hold on to it and not cash and say I want the full amount? I also think because the unit has still not rented that they are trying to not give me back the deposit and hope I just go away. I also took pictures before I left. I just KNEW there was something going to happen. Really I wasn't expecting all of it back, but at least $1800...
The funny thing is they even admit in the letter they did not mail out anything until 1/21, but come on, at most it would have taken TWO DAYS to arrive at my home. I DO NOT believe for one second they sent anything!
This is what I ended up sending, I'm sure the owner will flip out:
I am now writing a formal request to COMPANY to return my entire security deposit as required under Cal. Civ. Code Section 1950.5.
I vacated PROPERTY and returned keys 12/31 and placed them in the drop box as instructed. The office was closed and opened back up 1/2 according to the sign on the door. The ad for the property listed the unit as available on 1/10 on apartments.com. California Civil Code Section 1950.5 states that I am to receive my deposit and/or an itemized list with receipts for any deductions by 1/21. I am now requesting my entire deposit back since COMPANY are over a week late from the required time. I am requesting this be delivered by 2/7/2020 to NEW ADDRESS. Thank you.
So now we wait. I hope he leaves me a threatening message for court, and yes I took photos. And I have copies of all my forms and checklists as well. I also see a few people who sued them and won.
Say they send a check with itemized list for a partial amount, what do I do? Just hold on to it and not cash and say I want the full amount? I also think because the unit has still not rented that they are trying to not give me back the deposit and hope I just go away. I also took pictures before I left. I just KNEW there was something going to happen. Really I wasn't expecting all of it back, but at least $1800...
The funny thing is they even admit in the letter they did not mail out anything until 1/21, but come on, at most it would have taken TWO DAYS to arrive at my home. I DO NOT believe for one second they sent anything!
This is what I ended up sending, I'm sure the owner will flip out:
I am now writing a formal request to COMPANY to return my entire security deposit as required under Cal. Civ. Code Section 1950.5.
I vacated PROPERTY and returned keys 12/31 and placed them in the drop box as instructed. The office was closed and opened back up 1/2 according to the sign on the door. The ad for the property listed the unit as available on 1/10 on apartments.com. California Civil Code Section 1950.5 states that I am to receive my deposit and/or an itemized list with receipts for any deductions by 1/21. I am now requesting my entire deposit back since COMPANY are over a week late from the required time. I am requesting this be delivered by 2/7/2020 to NEW ADDRESS. Thank you.
So now we wait. I hope he leaves me a threatening message for court, and yes I took photos. And I have copies of all my forms and checklists as well. I also see a few people who sued them and won.
The law doesn't actually state you have to be in possession of the list 21 days after termination. There is no problem with a LL putting the list/refund in the mail on the 21st day, they just have to actually have done that which they claim they did and you claim you didn't receive it. That's tough for you to prove in court and if you didn't receive it then it likely got sent back to them, this takes weeks in my experience, so they should have the sealed and postmarked letter. That sealed letter is all the proof they need to win any lawsuit this early on and get legal fees from you.
Send them threatening letters but I wouldn't rush off to court just yet.
Quote:
No later than 21 calendar days after the tenant has vacated the premises landlord shall furnish the tenant, by personal delivery or by first-class mail, postage prepaid, a copy of an itemized statement indicating the basis for, and the amount of, any security received and the disposition of the security, and shall return any remaining portion of the security to the tenant.
Last edited by AZ Manager; 01-30-2020 at 09:06 AM..
The law doesn't actually state you have to be in possession of the list 21 days after termination. There is no problem with a LL putting the list/refund in the mail on the 21st day, they just have to actually have done that which they claim they did and you claim you didn't receive it. That's tough for you to prove in court and if you didn't receive it then it likely got sent back to them, this takes weeks in my experience, so they should have the sealed and postmarked letter. That sealed letter is all the proof they need to win any lawsuit this early on and get legal fees from you.
Send them threatening letters but I wouldn't rush off to court just yet.
I definitely don't want to go to court, I just want what I am owed minus the cleaning fees.
I get a daily snapshot from the post office of what mail is coming, and it's not in any of the picture scans. They scan each piece of mail to be delivered then send me an email. That might be one way to prove it?
I have a years worth of sending repair requests in writing followed by multiple follow up requests (sometimes up to 3 spanning up to 1-2 months asking when a repair will be completed). I think I can say if I have to go to court that I have established a pattern of them taking too long to repair items so I wouldn't be surprised that they would also just not mail out a list. In fact I realize the door lock on the patio door was not locking and I emailed two times asking them to fix it and they never did and I gave up and just cut a stick to keep the patio door from being able to be opened at night. I wonder if that's one item they charged me for... *facepalm*
I also have the emailed "itemized" $130 deduction from my previous deposit and landlord (out of a $1600 deposit). I might even be able to contact the previous company I rented from before and request a copy of the itemized $150 deduction from my $900 deposit. That could show from my last two places in 6 years I consistently have not lost much of my deposit.
Understand your that under CA law, any suit you file against the landlord still allows the landlord to countersue for damages.
Definitely understand.
Got a response back. They emailed me the itemized list plus a copy of the check and asked if I received it. They asked me to check the address- they sent it to the wrong address. I responded back thank you for the response and that the address they mailed it to is incorrect and please re-issue a check to the correct address. I did double check and I did send them the correct address so the mistake is not on my end.
I was correct, they only took a few hundred for cleaning. Thank goodness, I really don't have the time to deal with this! I was terrified I'd have to file a lawsuit. I lost ~$300 but I am OKAY with that because I did not wash the carpet or clean. I don't want to get involved in anything nasty- I just wanted what I was legally owed, deposit minus cleaning.
Got a response back. They emailed me the itemized list plus a copy of the check and asked if I received it. They asked me to check the address- they sent it to the wrong address. I responded back thank you for the response and that the address they mailed it to is incorrect and please re-issue a check to the correct address. I did double check and I did send them the correct address so the mistake is not on my end.
I was correct, they only took a few hundred for cleaning. Thank goodness, I really don't have the time to deal with this! I was terrified I'd have to file a lawsuit. I lost ~$300 but I am OKAY with that because I did not wash the carpet or clean. I don't want to get involved in anything nasty- I just wanted what I was legally owed, deposit minus cleaning.
Thanks all.
Never attribute to malice that which can be explained by incompetence...
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