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Old 06-22-2020, 09:01 PM
 
3 posts, read 1,126 times
Reputation: 10

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I moved out of a rental house and completed an initial move out inspection of the property with the property manager before vacating the premise. I completed all but one of the items on the list identified by the property manager and sent them photo evidence in addition to an email describing my work. The property manager completed a final walk through of the house and noted that the house was a little dirty but everything else was complete. I have an email of them telling me this.

Fast forward 22 days after vacating the property. I received my deposit check and an invoice. I am short 1/3 of my deposit. The landlord submitted an invoice from someone they hired to clean and repair the property. The invoice includes the person's name but no phone number so I couldn't reach out to him. The invoice is not what I would call itemized and included much more cleaning and repairs that surprised us. We did not agree with them and they were not issues identified at the initial and final walk through performed by the property manager.

The invoice was broken into 2 categories; a list of outside work/repairs and a list of inside work with dollar amounts for both categories but not for the individual items of which there were several. I have requested proof of work and repairs and dollar amounts for each item they listed. I requested this information 3 times over the course of 2 weeks after receiving the invoice. The property manager said the landlord was not going to provide me with anymore information. The property manager did send me photos of his move in and final inspections which will clear me of some of the damages the landlord is charging me for. I made a final attempt 3 days ago and sent the property manager an itemized list and asked them to tell me how much each cost. The total was around $750. The property manager responded today that the landlord has not responded to his email. Today was my deadline.

Before I draft my demand letter I have a few questions:
Was what the landlord sent me sufficient under CA law?
Do they have to send me the additional information I am requesting regarding clarification on damage and cost of each item?
Am I responsible for anything not found in the final move out inspection?

To add insult to injury, we forgot some of our kitchen accessories in the cabinets. These items were thrown out and we were charged for it. The property manager never let us know they were in the cabinets but he did take photos of them. We found out the day we received the letter where or possessions went. We would have gladly gone and picked them up. We moved 5 minutes down the road. I thought that in CA the landlord was suppose to hold on to our posessions, notify us, and could charge us for storing the items until we retrieved them?

Anyway, if you made it this far, thank you. Thoughts on this matter?

Last edited by ObjectAgnosia; 06-22-2020 at 09:04 PM.. Reason: Clarification
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Old 06-22-2020, 10:04 PM
 
Location: Phoenix, AZ
6,329 posts, read 4,834,462 times
Reputation: 17947
Quote:
Was what the landlord sent me sufficient under CA law?

If you want to hold the LL to the letter of the law I'm sure you can find a few things that weren't complied with.


Here's the statute. Read it carefully and cite the appropriate sections in your demand letter.


Law section.


As for the items you left behind, seems to me they would qualify as trash. If you want to include them in your dispute you might as well throw everything in and see how it goes.
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Old 06-23-2020, 04:32 AM
 
9,865 posts, read 14,054,425 times
Reputation: 21690
Quote:
Originally Posted by adjusterjack View Post


As for the items you left behind, seems to me they would qualify as trash. If you want to include them in your dispute you might as well throw everything in and see how it goes.

I would not throw this in at all. Seems petty and judges don't want to deal with that.
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Old 06-23-2020, 11:45 AM
 
3 posts, read 1,126 times
Reputation: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by spencgr View Post
I would not throw this in at all. Seems petty and judges don't want to deal with that.
Thanks, I appreciate the input.

adjusterjack- thanks for the link to the CA civ code. There's a few places I can reference to now in my demand letter.
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Old 06-23-2020, 06:46 PM
 
Location: North Idaho
32,559 posts, read 47,718,582 times
Reputation: 78065
I've paid for cleaning and professional cleaning of a basically clean unit that just needs some final polishing runs anywhere from $350 to $500 and it won't come with an itemized list.



If a house is dirty, so that it requires scrubbing, oven cleaning, window cleaning, baseboards washed, shower tracks washed, fingerprints removed, the cost is going to be much higher. You admit that the house was "a little dirty"


Professional cleaning is expensive. Your choice to leave "a little dirt" for someone else to clean up, so you must pay for that.


Move-out inspection is not the final word on charges. The landlord can not really inspect behind and under furniture and sometimes damage is done during the moving process. Sometimes damage isn't easily visible and gets discovered after the tenant is out.



Your landlord is not in charge of helping you move and he isn't going to wait until it is convenient for you to find time to move all the rest of your stuff. You moved out, anything you left is trash. It gets thrown out and you get the bill for the labor and dump fees. (and cleaning inside those cabinets, which you obviously did not do or you would have discovered they were still full of your stuff.)


You aren't going to get any itemized bill, any more than you already received. If you really feel it is worth your time, take the landlord to small claims court. The judge is not interested in he said/she said, so have all of your proof, good photos, copies of your contract and emails. It sounds to me like the landlord has his invoices, so he has his paper work. You will need to present yours and let the judge decide.
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Old 06-24-2020, 01:59 AM
 
3 posts, read 1,126 times
Reputation: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by oregonwoodsmoke View Post
I've paid for cleaning and professional cleaning of a basically clean unit that just needs some final polishing runs anywhere from $350 to $500 and it won't come with an itemized list.



If a house is dirty, so that it requires scrubbing, oven cleaning, window cleaning, baseboards washed, shower tracks washed, fingerprints removed, the cost is going to be much higher. You admit that the house was "a little dirty"


Professional cleaning is expensive. Your choice to leave "a little dirt" for someone else to clean up, so you must pay for that.


Move-out inspection is not the final word on charges. The landlord can not really inspect behind and under furniture and sometimes damage is done during the moving process. Sometimes damage isn't easily visible and gets discovered after the tenant is out.



Your landlord is not in charge of helping you move and he isn't going to wait until it is convenient for you to find time to move all the rest of your stuff. You moved out, anything you left is trash. It gets thrown out and you get the bill for the labor and dump fees. (and cleaning inside those cabinets, which you obviously did not do or you would have discovered they were still full of your stuff.)


You aren't going to get any itemized bill, any more than you already received. If you really feel it is worth your time, take the landlord to small claims court. The judge is not interested in he said/she said, so have all of your proof, good photos, copies of your contract and emails. It sounds to me like the landlord has his invoices, so he has his paper work. You will need to present yours and let the judge decide.

Thank you for a landlord's perspective.


I didn't say that I admit that the house was a little dirty. The Property manager noted that in his final walk through of the empty property and that everything else found in the initial inspection was taken care of.


It seems that California is a bit specific with their Civ Codes as it includes this bit about tenant's possessions:


“State law permits former tenants to reclaim abandoned personal property left at the former address of the tenant, subject to certain conditions. You may or may not be able to reclaim property without incurring additional costs, depending on the cost of storing the property and the length of time before it is reclaimed. In general, these costs will be lower the sooner you contact your former landlord after being notified that property belonging to you was left behind after you moved out.”


But this is not something I planned on pursuing. As I said. "To add insult to injury..."


That's a stretch to assume that because we left a few items behind on one shelf that the cabinets were left unclean and full. But this prepares me for the defensive mindset that I may be expecting leading up to the resolution of all of this.


My main concern is the discrepancy in the property manager's final walk through of the property and what I was actually billed for. There are items that were not found on the initial walk through nor the final walk through he completed alone. Is a property manager's walk through not the official walk through in California? I had no problem fixing the list of problems sent to me but I was never given an opportunity to address the issues the landlord had problems with.



The last part is a good point. I don't want to waste anyone's time and have been cordial and patient in my communications with the management company. Unfortunately this has led me to wasting my time because my request have gotten me no where. Again, I appreciate the tips and will focus on photos, contracts, and my paper trail.
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Old 06-24-2020, 06:41 PM
 
828 posts, read 411,918 times
Reputation: 1148
Not the majority. But sometimes you get bad landlords.
This is one. The plan is to charge you as much as possible. Drag it out by not responding. And hope you give up and just go away and will not fight this in court.

Or he will wait to see if you actually file and then try to settle.
Sounds like you have an excellent case. And with 2 walk troughs there is no way a Judge will allow anything not listed on those.
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