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How many threads have we seen in here about landlords trying to control their tenants lives far outside of the bounds of their business relationship? Just in the past year or so we had the one here about the landlord hassling the lady who was working from home and another where the landlord was hassling the woman who let her boyfriend stay with her a couple times a week.
Just absolutely absurd ****.
All adults living in a rental must be approved and on the lease. Sneaking in criminals, sex offenders, drug dealers, etc is a concern and tactic with girlfriend’s who don’t mention their boyfriends because they know they would not be approved. If you care about your rental house and the neighbors you care about who is living in the house and expect the lease to be followed. If you rent to one person- that is the person you expect to be living there. They don’t get to simply do whatever they want.
Likewise there are legality and liability issues in allowing someone to run a business out of their home. A landlord who does not stay on top of these things is being negligent and putting themselves at risk.
Recently, I have noticed a trend of landlords advocating amongst themselves that they should require that the documentation that accompanies a request for reasonable accommodation must come from a "local" physician. If the physician is not local to the landlord, they will not accept the documentation.
This is illegal, folks. Do not do it.
This is probably a good time to refresh everyone on the law when it comes to the FHA and assistance animals.
HUD further clarified "reliable disability-related information" in FHEO-2020-01, issued on January 28th, 2020.
It is important to note that the Fair Housing Act is federal law which means that we must comply to the letter; we can neither add to it, delete from it, nor interpret it. Somehow, people keep misconstruing what "reliable information" is. HUD simply states, "from a licensed health care professional..." It does not state that the health care professional must reside in or practice in the same state as the landlord, therefore we cannot insert that information; it wouldn’t matter if the health care professional lived in another country.
It is also worth noting that HUD takes FHA violations very seriously, and even non-malicious violations can receive fines in the low five figures. Landlords would be well advised to learn these laws and follow them accordingly.
Thankfully, I have not seen many instances of landlords advocating for this kind of behavior on this forum, but it has been increasingly common on other forums and mediums, and I presume it is only a matter of time before this tactic is presented here and thus this post is meant to head off the misinformation at the pass. One example I saw on another forum was so onerous in that a landlord was refusing a request accompanied by a letter from a practicing psychiatrist simply because the psychiatrist practiced in a state other than his own. That his prospective tenant was the young wife of a military officer on an active duty transfer who had not even herself stepped foot in his state yet did not seem to persuade him. Despite being warned by a few upstanding landlords on the site, he stuck to his guns. We can only hope that his prospective tenant reported him and that he receives the legal beatdown he deserves soon.
In my state the law says:
An out-of-state practitioner providing supporting information must have provided “in-person care or services” to the individual on at least one occasion and that practitioner must have personal knowledge of the person’s disability and must be acting within the scope of his or her practice. This portion of the new law is designed to eliminate the medical letters that can be printed out online without the person ever being seen or treated by that medical professional.
This is an attempt to crack down on the massive amount of ESA fraud landlords are up against. The online ESA letter mills are a joke. I filled out several questionnaires as a test. In doing so I answered every question in such a way as to indicate I no issues with anything. Lo and behold I qualified for an ESA! Imagine that. If you really need an ESA due to a medical condition that’s one thing. Expecting you to substantiate it is a reasonable request.
One thing that's left out here is that the FHA does not apply to many landlords.
If the building is a multi family home with four or fewer units and the owner lives in of them, then it doesn't apply. Or if it's a single family home, and the landlord placed the tenants without the use of a broker or agent, and the landlord owns three or fewer houses then it also doesn't apply and the landlord can deny ESAs all day long.
This is specifically why I don't work with brokers or agents and find my own tenants (one of the reasons, anyway).
Most professional landlords are subject to the FHA and many states have their own version which offers even fewer exemptions.
All adults living in a rental must be approved and on the lease. Sneaking in criminals, sex offenders, drug dealers, etc is a concern and tactic with girlfriend’s who don’t mention their boyfriends because they know they would not be approved. If you care about your rental house and the neighbors you care about who is living in the house and expect the lease to be followed. If you rent to one person- that is the person you expect to be living there. They don’t get to simply do whatever they want.
Likewise there are legality and liability issues in allowing someone to run a business out of their home. A landlord who does not stay on top of these things is being negligent and putting themselves at risk.
The boyfriend of the poster in question didn't live there. He had his own house but stayed with the poster a couple nights a week like normal couples often do when they live apart. The other poster wasn't running a business from home, she was simply working her normal job from home. Both were perfectly legal uses of their home yet both received near constant harassment from their landlords.
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In my state the law says:
An out-of-state practitioner providing supporting information must have provided “in-person care or services” to the individual on at least one occasion and that practitioner must have personal knowledge of the person’s disability and must be acting within the scope of his or her practice. This portion of the new law is designed to eliminate the medical letters that can be printed out online without the person ever being seen or treated by that medical professional.
The States have no authority to modify or place restrictions on the Fair Housing Act, which is federal law. They may implement their own laws which provide more protection (as Florida has done, which you cited from) but landlords are still subject to the FHA where applicable, so there are a few problems.
- A landlord who is subject to both the FHA and Florida Chapter 760 would run afoul of the FHA by trying to implement these more restrictive standards and would be liable for causes of action that arise under such.
- A landlord who is not subject to the FHA but is subject to Chapter 760 would find that any provider which has met with the patient via telemedicine has satisfied the "in person" requirement. Likewise, most of the providers giving ESA letters online are doing so from health professionals in the state where the patient resides. Ten seconds on Google turned up a handful of providers that specifically state that a healthcare professional in your state will issue the letter.
The boyfriend of the poster in question didn't live there. He had his own house but stayed with the poster a couple nights a week like normal couples often do when they live apart. The other poster wasn't running a business from home, she was simply working her normal job from home. Both were perfectly legal uses of their home yet both received near constant harassment from their landlords.
The States have no authority to modify or place restrictions on the Fair Housing Act, which is federal law. They may implement their own laws which provide more protection (as Florida has done, which you cited from) but landlords are still subject to the FHA where applicable, so there are a few problems.
- A landlord who is subject to both the FHA and Florida Chapter 760 would run afoul of the FHA by trying to implement these more restrictive standards and would be liable for causes of action that arise under such.
- A landlord who is not subject to the FHA but is subject to Chapter 760 would find that any provider which has met with the patient via telemedicine has satisfied the "in person" requirement. Likewise, most of the providers giving ESA letters online are doing so from health professionals in the state where the patient resides. Ten seconds on Google turned up a handful of providers that specifically state that a healthcare professional in your state will issue the letter.
Landlords don’t typically harass tenants without cause. Usually the landlord who enforces their leases cares about their properties more than a lackadaisical landlord and has every right to enforce compliance.
Make sure your lease has an early termination clause so if you find you don’t like them you can terminate early.
Just because someone does things differently than you do doesn’t make them a mental case. Your way works for you, their way works for them.
Personally I won’t ever allow the government to force me to take an untrained, undesirable dog merely because someone paid for a letter off the internet. There are ways to weed out cheaters and still comply with the law. There are extra steps you can take protect yourself from unscrupulous actors. You may call them petty or controlling but we have to do what it takes to protect ourselves when the laws fail to do so.
Landlords don’t typically harass tenants without cause.
While that would be nice to believe, we've seen exactly that happen, either on these very same forums or in person.
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Usually the landlord who enforces their leases cares about their properties more than a lackadaisical landlord and has every right to enforce compliance.
Make sure your lease has an early termination clause so if you find you don’t like them you can terminate early.
I don't rent anymore, but I've ***** slapped a couple landlords who stepped out of bounds with me. Luckily they were exceptions rather than the rule. When we were landlords in the past (and possibly again in the future) we made sure to know and respect professional boundaries.
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Just because someone does things differently than you do doesn’t make them a mental case. Your way works for you, their way works for them.
The fact that they do it different doesn't make them a mental case. The methods they employ can often make them a mental case though.
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Personally I won’t ever allow the government to force me to take an untrained, undesirable dog merely because someone paid for a letter off the internet.
Sure, and you're probably a small time landlord who doesn't have more than a unit or two and isn't subject to the FHA. That's fine and all, and thus this thread doesn't apply to you.
While that would be nice to believe, we've seen exactly that happen, either on these very same forums or in person.
I don't rent anymore, but I've ***** slapped a couple landlords who stepped out of bounds with me. Luckily they were exceptions rather than the rule. When we were landlords in the past (and possibly again in the future) we made sure to know and respect professional boundaries.
The fact that they do it different doesn't make them a mental case. The methods they employ can often make them a mental case though.
Sure, and you're probably a small time landlord who doesn't have more than a unit or two and isn't subject to the FHA. That's fine and all, and thus this thread doesn't apply to you.
Well I’ve been an extremely successful and sought out landlord of dozens of homes for dozens of years. I have waiting lists and don’t typically have a need to advertise. You developed a knack for sniffing out cheaters and liars and having high standards and a thorough vetting process reduces the chances of having tenant issues significantly. Today’s environment has made it necessary for landlords to be exceedingly cautious. Years ago I wouldn’t have thought it necessary to do in home visits prior to approving a tenant. In today’s world coupled with past experience I wouldn’t think not to.
I will not be forced to engage in a business transaction with a cheater- prime example would be the tenant who uses an internet purchased ESA certificate to keep pit bulls locked up for hours on end while they are at work all day and clearly function fine without them. Fortunately since I only rent to very responsible people I don’t run into this scenario and find responsible people don’t lie about their pets or choose pets that are undesirable to housing providers and insurance companies in the first place. If and when the day comes I am ever faced with such a choice I will take my property off the market. There is no law restricting me from selling my house. Not yet.
It is unfortunate for the truly disabled that rules meant to protect them have resulted in so much unscrupulous behavior. Yet it has become a profitable business. I must protect my business in order to continue to properly provide services to my pool of quality tenants.
As to the airplane fiasco and ESAs, there was a HUD letter put out about a year ago now, I think, that stated that an ESA must be a pet that is a domesticated animal, and not one that is normally considered a barnyard animal. Something like that. It may have even said it must be a dog or cat, but I can't remember. But, HUD took care of the chicken and ducks and pigs, etc.
I have been on both sides as a tenant trying to get a reasonable accommodation, and a manager screening tenants. I successfully won a fair housing complaint (it wasn't for an ESA, but over a different reasonable accommodation). But, I know first hand that filing a HUD or state fair housing complaint is not easy sailing. I was grilled by the state fair housing inspector, like I was on trial for murder. They're tough. They make sure the complaint meets the requirements under the law.
So, knowing what I know now about how that process actually works, if I was screening tenants nowadays, and I really believed it was someone trying to get away with something, I'd deny and if they complained, I'd tell them that I understand they believe they were discriminated against and I suggest they file a complaint if they believe they would win and I'd be happy to comply with whatever HUD decides. The process takes at least a year. So, the applicant would have to find other housing in the meantime. Then, what happens is HUD/state suggests mediation.
So, basically, I'd call their bluff in a friendly but businesslike way. I respect that you feel you've been discriminated against. I disagree. Let's let HUD decide.
As to the airplane fiasco and ESAs, there was a HUD letter put out about a year ago now, I think, that stated that an ESA must be a pet that is a domesticated animal, and not one that is normally considered a barnyard animal. Something like that. It may have even said it must be a dog or cat, but I can't remember. But, HUD took care of the chicken and ducks and pigs, etc.
I have been on both sides as a tenant trying to get a reasonable accommodation, and a manager screening tenants. I successfully won a fair housing complaint (it wasn't for an ESA, but over a different reasonable accommodation). But, I know first hand that filing a HUD or state fair housing complaint is not easy sailing. I was grilled by the state fair housing inspector, like I was on trial for murder. They're tough. They make sure the complaint meets the requirements under the law.
So, knowing what I know now about how that process actually works, if I was screening tenants nowadays, and I really believed it was someone trying to get away with something, I'd deny and if they complained, I'd tell them that I understand they believe they were discriminated against and I suggest they file a complaint if they believe they would win and I'd be happy to comply with whatever HUD decides. The process takes at least a year. So, the applicant would have to find other housing in the meantime. Then, what happens is HUD/state suggests mediation.
So, basically, I'd call their bluff in a friendly but businesslike way. I respect that you feel you've been discriminated against. I disagree. Let's let HUD decide.
I agree with this approach. If you are fair and treat everyone the same you have nothing to worry about. Especially if you already rent to people with animals in the first place.
Well I’ve been an extremely successful and sought out landlord of dozens of homes for dozens of years. I have waiting lists and don’t typically have a need to advertise. You developed a knack for sniffing out cheaters and liars and having high standards and a thorough vetting process reduces the chances of having tenant issues significantly. Today’s environment has made it necessary for landlords to be exceedingly cautious. Years ago I wouldn’t have thought it necessary to do in home visits prior to approving a tenant. In today’s world coupled with past experience I wouldn’t think not to.
I will not be forced to engage in a business transaction with a cheater- prime example would be the tenant who uses an internet purchased ESA certificate to keep pit bulls locked up for hours on end while they are at work all day and clearly function fine without them. Fortunately since I only rent to very responsible people I don’t run into this scenario and find responsible people don’t lie about their pets or choose pets that are undesirable to housing providers and insurance companies in the first place. If and when the day comes I am ever faced with such a choice I will take my property off the market. There is no law restricting me from selling my house. Not yet.
I'm glad to hear that you're doing well and seemingly do right by your tenants. I'm just not sure what point you're trying to make here.
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It is unfortunate for the truly disabled that rules meant to protect them have resulted in so much unscrupulous behavior. Yet it has become a profitable business. I must protect my business in order to continue to properly provide services to my pool of quality tenants.
My day job is working in behavioral health. Take it from me, the truly disabled really don't care much if people exploit the rules as long as they're taken care of. They have much bigger problems to deal with.
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