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Just move and find a better one. Plus the laws favor tenants. You can still without rent until it is fixed. While you look for a better place.
Yeah, there's good ones. But the bad ones definitely but a damper on the name. Interview landlords!!! Talk to current tenants.. do your work so you don't have to face the consequences
And yeah I just had a situation (On another thread). Law was completely on my side over a room sign/misinformation on lease that I didn't even know was on there. My town literally asked me "Is your tenant providing you with A, , C? No? Well its on the lease!" On that, they gave me all my rent back lol.
Talk to your city's rental or housing authority. Especially if it is a college/university town. I recommend that, it puts slumlords in a hole.
I literally have never had a notable landlord problem in the 23 years I was a renter, including just renting rooms in a couple of places with the landlord as a roommate and of course experienced more than a couple sheety places that I chose to rent. In fact, the last place we rented for almost eight years before we bought our house the landlord never raised the rent, allowed us to choose carpet mid-term in our tenancy and trusted us to call the plumber or another on-call repair person anytime, no questions with the bill directly sent to them.
She commented at our house warming party to which she of course was invited to, “What?! I would be crazy to raise the rent or treat tenants like you as anything but respectfully who always pay the rent on time, are responsible, don’t trash and rather keep up the property!”
Renting gives you, the tenant, most of the power. You just have to use it wisely.
Just move and find a better one. Plus the laws favor tenants. You can still without rent until it is fixed. While you look for a better place.
Yes and No. Withholding rent is a double edge sword. it can bite the tenant in the butt, leaving a permanent scar. Here's a scenario:
My air conditioner went out. You live in Phoenix Arizona. The high for the next couple weeks are topping 115+ degrees. You have gone without a/c for going on a week. You have reached out, emailed, texted and called the landlord who promises a repair soon, but nothing happens. You even sent a certified notice of the issue and yet, you are still waiting. You would love to just move, but you are mid way into a 12 month lease. You are stuck. You then decide to withhold rent until the issue is resolved. This goes on past the rent due date. The a/c has now been broken for two or three weeks. Then today you receive a notice of eviction. The tenant contests it in court and regardless of whether or not the judge overturns or enforces the eviction doesn't matter. That eviction is now linked to that tenant. The tenant is now having to explain to every single landlord going forward, as to why he had to go to court, and that is assuming that the landlord will hear him out.
Why would I necessarily appreciate someone who made an investment? You're not "letting" someone live there, you are charging them to do so, as you expect your investment to give returns.
Because some of the landlords on here are self entitled and full of cr** that think tenants should be groveling at their lord and savior landlords for "allowing" them the "privilege" of being a guest on their hard earned property.
I literally have never had a notable landlord problem in the 23 years I was a renter, including just renting rooms in a couple of places with the landlord as a roommate and of course experienced more than a couple sheety places that I chose to rent. In fact, the last place we rented for almost eight years before we bought our house the landlord never raised the rent, allowed us to choose carpet mid-term in our tenancy and trusted us to call the plumber or another on-call repair person anytime, no questions with the bill directly sent to them.
She commented at our house warming party to which she of course was invited to, “What?! I would be crazy to raise the rent or treat tenants like you as anything but respectfully who always pay the rent on time, are responsible, don’t trash and rather keep up the property!”
Renting gives you, the tenant, most of the power. You just have to use it wisely.
I have been a renter all of my adult life. I really don't understand any of this notion you say about 'we having all of the power'. Tenants face a number of issues that are straight up unfair for them. Have you ever taken a landlord to court or went to court to fight for your deposit back or to defend yourself against a landlord that wants to leach out every dime from a tenant in bad faith? Not every tenant is good and some are bad and deserve the deposit taken away.
But for the sake of this example, let's say that the tenant abided by every lease term and paid rent on time every year, never destroying the property and everything in the house is normal wear and tear. That tenant is now faced with taking the landlord to small claims or to defend themselves from the landlord that takes them to court. Whatever the outcome is involving the court, the tenant now has a negative strike on them that every landlord in the future will know about when they pull the background check. Do you think that future landlords will care?
Most landlords, and I’m including the ones on here, not all, but most, could care less if the tenant lives in a poorly maintained unit. Landlords all care about one thing, and that’s money. I don’t blame them. It’s how they make a living, but still, tenants are human beings. We are not animals. We are paying our rent on time, we are keeping the property up to code, and yet, the landlord drags their feet on repairs. The landlord doesn’t care that the heat went out. He doesn’t care that the a/c went on the fritz. He doesn’t care that the water heater stopped working. He would leave the tenant in this dire situation if he could. And the only thing keeping the landlord from doing so is laws. Tenants have SOME protection against slumlords. Had it not been for those laws set in place, every tenant would be living in a rental without a roof, a heater or running warm water.
I know quite a few landlords and I have never met one over the years who is anything like you described. It doesn’t even make sense. They don’t spend thousands of dollars and not want to maintain their property.
There is certain difficult pool of tenants that some landlords cater to where properties aren’t cared for or valued by the tenants and they will have landlords who do the bare minimum because anything else would be throwing their money away. Maybe that’s the kind of places you’ve been renting. You simply have no idea until you’ve seen how some people choose to live.
I personally have 18 rentals left, down from 34 over the last few years. I never advertise as I am able to stay full via referrals. Most of my tenants have been with me 5-10 years. I value my tenants and bend over backwards to take care of them and most of my landlord friends and acquaintances are very similar. If it was all about the money my rents would be a whole lot higher. Several of my tenants have purchased the homes they rented from me because they know they are getting well maintained homes. So chances are good if you are a good tenant, your landlord will be a good landlord. And if he’s not, there is almost always a good reason.
Because some of the landlords on here are self entitled and full of cr** that think tenants should be groveling at their lord and savior landlords for "allowing" them the "privilege" of being a guest on their hard earned property.
Well personally I hope everyone aspires to own thus depriving folks of investment on their return. But it doesn't seem everyone can (or will.) I am just not compatible with landlords.
Lol yep! It’s like eating at a restaurant. The customer is purchasing a product or service from them, in exchange for money. Some of these landlords on here take offense when a tenant wants to be treated with dignity and respect. I can care less about the landlords investment. I pay them good money to provide me with a place to live in. If I refuse to pay rent, I’m a bad tenant. If my landlord refuse to make repairs, they are a bad landlord.
Very true, never understood tenants who didn't pay their rent. Have had landlords that didn't want to spend their money repairing their property.
Very true, never understood tenants who didn't pay their rent. Have had landlords that didn't want to spend their money repairing their property.
Oh absolutely! The first house I had ever rented was through an actual person that owned the home. He was a pretty darn good landlord. Would fix things that needed repairs. He even sprung for an hvac system too for us. the first year the house had evap cooling. Then he decided to install an hvac for us because we were the first tenants that paid the rent on time for 12 consecutive months. He would raise the rent every lease renewal, but it was a very reasonable amount, and usually around $30-$50 extra. I can live with that. I wish he was my current landlord.
Location: Formerly Pleasanton Ca, now in Marietta Ga
10,345 posts, read 8,559,492 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Achilles765
Yes, it is long. But this is a comprehensive discussion about what more and more people, particularly those of us under 40, are starting to think and feel. Landlords frequently ask why people hate them, why tenants push back, and what renters are thinking. Too often the discussion turns toxic because someone thinks they're cute by resorting to insults and references to a certain Chinese dictator that are neither clever nor appropriate.
This is not intended to be insulting, trolling, or brigading. This is an attempt to have a frank and real discussion about this issue.
Landlords are not scapegoats, and they are not the victims; they are the bad guys in our society. It is time to reign them in.
Over the last year, there have been a countless number of news articles, local TV reports, and nationwide stories about the struggles being faced by people who rent. When the coronavirus pandemic ramped up, millions of people suddenly found themselves out of work, with no warning. Stay at home and lockdown orders were initiated throughout the country, mandating people remain at home to attempt to mitigate the spread of the virus, which at the time was not very well understood. It was an act taken out of an abundance of caution. Many people were out of work and with no income, or severely reduced income, for at least two to three months.
Congress did get around to passing a relief bill, which sent out stimulus checks directly to millions of Americans, and expanded unemployment benefits so that they were easier to obtain (well they were supposed to be), and added $600 a week to recipients’ payments. SNAP food benefits were also made easier to obtain, and a moratorium on evictions and foreclosures was enacted, with generous provisions allowing for mortgage forbearance and refinancing without penalty.
And landlords all around the country lost their minds. Despite the fact that many had been able to refinance their mortgages, or forbear payments which would have tacked on a few extra months at the end, they were livid that they could not evict. There is no shortage of examples of cruel, heartless, condescending, and out of touch notices and letters that were sent out to people who were already struggling and worried for their health and their future. One landlord threatened to cut off residents’ cable and remove their internet wiring if they couldn’t pay. Another told renters who might work in the service industry that they “could borrow money from family or friends, or take out a payday loan.”
That last example was in a letter sent from a property management company with $8.2 billion in assets. The same letter admonished the renters by reminding them “we have expenses too, like payroll for our employees.” What they did not mention, however, was that they received close to $15 million in funds from the Payroll Protection Program, which would have covered their expenses for those things. Instead, they encouraged people who were out of work and already economically stressed and likely worried about losing their homes in the middle of a pandemic, to go and saddle themselves with payday loans, which are notorious for their incredibly high (up to 1900%) interest rates.
The original moratorium ended in May 2020, but the CARES Act was also passed, which protected renters in HUD or federally backed mortgage properties, again providing the owners with forbearance and refinancing options. In September, after thousands of people were again being evicted, and the infection and death rates continued to spike, the CDC issued a moratorium on evictions for nonpayment of rent. Many states and local governments had already done so, and some had pretty strict bans. The federal ban only placed a moratorium on nonpayment evictions.
Landlords immediately began to complain. The website bigger pockets.com, where landlords post advice and opinions on their “career” on forums, became overrun with posts complaining about not being able to kick people out of their homes in a global pandemic. Landlord lobby groups immediately began to bring lawsuits. Most of which they lost, but then they would just file again, somewhere else. Big corporate landlords kept filing anyway, as did many individuals, despite it being illegal. Even as the death toll climbed past 100,000; 250,000; 400,000 they were more concerned about not being able to throw people out to die in the streets.
At the same time, we began to see two types of news stories come out: the first category were news stories about the small “mom and pop landlords” who were being hurt and suffering because of the moratorium. The second category involved stories of people who were still being evicted, either through courts or by their landlords threatening, intimidating, and forcing them out. People had their belongings seized, utilities shut off, locks changed. The moratorium only covered evictions for nonpayment so many landlords just suddenly discovered “unauthorized occupants” and “unapproved pets.” One lady in Houston Texas was evicted for “alcohol and drug use.” Her landlord had done a surprise inspection when she was not home and found her wine collection; she was a sommelier before the pandemic.
For months, the biggest complaint they had was that people were getting all this extra unemployment money and stimulus checks, but that landlords weren’t getting any relief. Aside, of course, from the ability to get forbearance or refinance without penalty. And they conveniently leave out the fact that even with a mortgage, they have equity in the property that they can utilize, a privilege renters are not afforded. The refrain was the same for months: we need major rent relief: rent assistance payments to the landlords to prevent them from going under, and to keep people in their homes. It was one time when both sides of the issue agreed on something. So tenant rights advocates, legal aid lawyers, housing departments, individual renters, landlord and apartment groups, and lawmakers all banded together and managed to lobby and get passed a massive rent relief bill, with billions set aside specifically for rent. Everyone got what they wanted: the system worked.
And then landlords all across the country promptly refused to accept the money, cooperate with the programs, or, in many cases, took the money and then evicted people anyway. In the middle of a pandemic. Many people were evicted during a historic winter freeze in Texas; evicted during a time when almost half of the state was without power, yet some courts still insisted on zoom hearings, and issued default judgements against people who were just trying not to freeze to death in their homes. Why are they refusing? Because the programs won’t let them charge usurious late fees, and they can’t evict or gouge people on rent for a year after they accept it. They act like that is such an unacceptable string attached. But who honestly can say they don’t absolutely know that if that provision were not in place, they would all gladly take the money and then still kick everyone out into the street anyway.
I’m sick of hearing about the “mom and pop” landlords and how much they are suffering so badly. The bigger pockets forums, as well as any forum where landlords are allowed to post freely and openly is riddled with these people complaining about renter protections of any kind, and claiming that this is all the government taking their property and using them as scapegoats. They have this huge victim mentality that its the whole world against them and that they are unfairly targeted. At the same time, they grouse about tenants with their “excuses and blaming everyone else for their troubles, trying to make you part of their drama.”
Because of the last year, many of them are selling properties out of spite, making it increasingly more difficult to qualify for a rental, jacking rents up to insane levels, bragging about how they are going to get back at the people who couldn’t pay and the society that wronged them. And it’s all everyone else’s fault. Its the renters for not having enough savings; its the government for trying to protect citizens from greed and cruelty (and ****ing death by a pandemic). None of these things they are doing are actually necessary. They simply cannot get it in their heads that this past year was an unusual, once in a century event where things were just different. Instead of holding grudges and further contributing to the downfall of our society through evictions, homelessness, poverty, and pettiness, they should be thankful to still be alive and that they still have their property. As well as all the extra homes they’re holding and preventing millions of Americans from purchasing for themselves and their families.
In America, wages have stagnated. Minimum wage has not increased in almost two decades; millions of people make $7.25 an hour. Even people with college degrees are underpaid, and the rising cost of college ensures that most graduates enter their adulthood tens of thousands of dollars in debt. Meanwhile, rent and home prices have skyrocketed. IN 2010, a one bedroom apartment in Houston Texas could be easily found for between $590 and $900, with $900 being the very high end. Now, the cheapest rentals in the same city range from $1000 to $3000 per month. With rent rising and wages either staying the same or decreasing, more and more Americans are paying out half or more of their salary to rent. This erases any chance of saving up to buy their own home; it barely even leaves them enough for food and other utilities. The vast majority of Americans do not have enough savings to cover a $300 emergency.
The issue with landlords is that a house for rent is not a house for sale. You can rent a house for 30 years but never own it. In fact you are doing nothing more than paying a landlord's mortgage. So in 15 or 30 years the landlord gets a free house in return for labor that you provided. So what did you get in return? Nothing, the house is not yours. So what service did the landlord offer? None. They just happened to have more money and a higher credit score than you. Possibly (and very realistically) they bought it for cash. They buy tax liens and bank foreclosures and other homes you or I have no access to, because many sell within a few days to people with briefcases of cash. It takes the average person over a month to close on a mortgage. But what if you want to buy a home and not rent? The price now is higher than ever before. That's because about 20 percent of all homes are rental homes. No, not apartments, not duplexes, but single family homes. We are facing a housing shortage and the demand rises because the more homes landlords buy, money furnished by the toil of your labor, the less homes that are for sale. The median price of a home in 1970 was $23,000, or $155,000 today with inflation. Today the median home price is $270,000, almost double what many people’s parents would have paid for a home. With each rent check you sign, you raise the price of a home. You give the landlord more capital to buy more homes and shrink the number of homes for sale which only worsens supply and increases demand. Most houses, once they become a rental, will never be for sale again. Some of you may laugh at this and that's fine, your are probably older and already own your own home or are a landlord, but the housing market and the affordability of a house are no laughing manner for those of us under 40. It's downright depressing. Landlords should only preside over apartments, and apartments should only be for young people, college students, or divorced older people as a stepping stone to home ownership. You should not have to rent your entire life, and if you think about it, the end goal of a landlord is total home ownership at your expense and the removal of ever owning your own home and having something to pass off to your children. So yes, landlords are completely unnecessary in terms of single family homes and put unnecessary burden on the already strained real estate market and keep putting the chances of home ownership out of the reach of younger generations.
Now is a good time to discuss one of landlords’ favorite arguments: why should they be hated for being successful? They worked hard and had enough money to buy rental property; they’re housing providers. They barely make any profit anyway; they need to pay their mortgages and property taxes, etc. Ok, lets examine these points one by one.
First, no one is hating anyone for being successful. But when your success hinges on taking away someone else’s money just because you have something every human needs, with the threat of the legal and police system readily at your disposal, its going to garner some resentment. That property that is an investment to you, that is someones home. Thats the place where they go to shut out the world and relax; where they may spend time with their family. Its where they lay their head at night to rest, and where they feel safe. And in the back of their mind, they always have to worry about when you’re going to take it away from them. One emergency, one serious illness, one other person who offers to pay more, one missed phone call, and they could forced out with no recourse.
As to the argument that they worked hard to obtain these properties, that may be true. A large number of rental housing units are owned by big corporate firms or REITs, which are basically groups of people and/or hedge funds, Wall Street types, or other investors who all get together, pool their money and buy property. These small “mom and pop” landlords we keep being reminded to care about generally own less than ten units, usually either single family homes, small apartment buildings, or duplexes. Most of these are either inherited, in which case the owner did nothing special to get them other than be born. Many others are purchased by people who already own their own homes, and have watched enough HGTV and read all the articles about how “rental property makes great passive income>” and rush out and buy additional property with a mortgage.
And that brings us to a major problem. Landlords, both “mom and pop” and large corporations are buying up houses and entire neighborhoods for the purpose of renting them out, which artificially inflates the home prices in a region, while simultaneously shutting out people who might want to buy them. Once a house is turned into a rental, it very rarely ever becomes owner-occupied again. Old homes in historic neighborhoods are carved up into 4 or 5 separate tiny apartments. Old houses are bulldozed so developers can build two condos set wall-to-wall on that one lot, which they then rent for $2000 a month.
Millions of young Americans are starting to look for homes to own and finding that they are shut out of many markets because investors offer $50,000-$100,000 over the asking price, in cash. Or the realtor specifies that a property is being sold as “investment only.” This added to the difficulty in obtaining a mortgage since the 2008 financial crisis, is leading to a point where most people are stuck in a cycle of renting.
As for the argument that landlords barely make a profit and have expenses; then what is the point? Why not just sell the house to the person renting it? You don’t live in it. You don’t need it. All of these are used as excuses for why landlords like to evict so much. But, if you are so underwater that one person needing to be a few weeks late is going to cause you to lose everything, maybe you should lose it because you can’t afford it.
Which brings me to another problem: evictions and homelessness. The vast majority of people who get evicted are evicted after one late or missed month’s payment. Many landlords have absolutely no compassion or tolerance for any late payment. They want it on the first, period. In states where they are allowed to, many landlords issue threatening letters at 5 pm on the first and are at the courthouse filing for eviction on the second. They don’t care when the renters’ paychecks arrive, or what other bills or needs they have, and they certainly don’t care about illness or death. One landlord on biggerpockets even brags that his tenants know paying him comes before everything, including food. And payments must be in full—no making arrangements with someone who is struggling and just needs time to get caught up. From their point of view, doing so only allows the renter to get DEEPER in debt. They use the Fair housing Act as a shield for these draconian measures by saying “I could get sued if I don’t do it the same way with everyone.”
Just take a second to think about how disgusting it is to twist a legislation meant to prevent discrimination against someone because of their race, religion, gender, sexual orientation, marital status, health status, mental health status, or ethnicity into a cover for throwing people out for being one day late. Or for why they just deny anyone for any reason and never tell them why.
Which brings up another point: the argument that they have bias to pay on that property. A mortgage is due on the first and late on the 15th, which is when the grace period ends and a late fee is added. One fee is added per month. It takes up to six or ten months for a foreclosure to be sought, and the lender will almost certainly have sent notices, allowed partial payments, principle only payments, or interest only payments. But a renter gets until maybe the 3rd or 5th, and by then the rent has ballooned with a late fee, daily late fees, notice posting fees (that is a complete rip off. You cannot expect me to believe it costs you $40 or $100 to print a one page note and tape it to the door. That is utter bull****.) So it really does not hurt the landlord in anyway if they get the rent on the first, third, or tenth. If its before the 15th, why should it matter?
Property taxes! I hear landlords shouting. Nice try. Property taxes are assessed and paid once a year, here in Harris County its generally due in February. Late charges only accrue per MONTH. It takes up to a year or more for a tax lien to seize a home. Compare that to a renter who can be made homeless in under a month.
Finally, there’s the attitude. Many, many landlords have this attitude that they are smarter, better, and more entitled to whatever they want simply because they own extra property. They look down on people who rent, talk about them like they are children, and demand strict obedience and deference at all times. It is especially galling to be an adult who works and is paying someone else’s bills, building their equity and wealth at the expense of their own, and to have to ask for permission for everything. To be reminded nonstop that even though you are paying for everything and living in a home, it will never be yours to truly enjoy. You must ask permission for anything. Want to hang a picture? Install a latch on bidet? Get a pet? Get married and have your spouse move in? He better be approved or I guess you better divorce. Does the ac never cool the house above 80 in summer? Don’t even think about a window unit or portable AC.
The entire system has gotten way out of hand. There is too much of a power imbalance and too much cruelty and lack of basic human decency meted out by the landlord class. These people evict renters who are in the hospital, who are dying, who are pregnant; they do it in winter and during pandemics. An estimated 15,000 deaths per year are linked to evictions, and there aren’t even good estimates as to how many people are trapped in poverty and misery forever because of evictions and landlord policies. Because landlords are vindictive. Its not enough to make someone homeless, they have to make sure they STAY that way. Ruin their credit, report it all over the world, garnish their paychecks and bank accounts and ensure they never ever have a chance to get back up. Kick them when they’re down—then kick them again but harder. That late payment cost you a vacation to Europe, or a new BMW. How dare they?
It needs to end. Maybe it is best if we make it so hard on landlords that they all sell—they can be compelled to sell to the people who actually live in the homes. Big corporate landlords can buy up the buildings and SFRs; with their bottomless vaults of Scrooge McDuck money, they can afford to be regulated heavily. Easier to regulate a company that an individual. Pass strict nationwide laws that mandate mediation and payment arrangements before eviction can even be considered. Ban no fault evictions, and seal eviction records so they can never be used against anyone ever again. Nationwide rent control, and mandate that developers must build low and mid income units, not just luxury condos. Any company who violates any part of the law will first be fined 50 million dollars. A second offense nets all involved a jail sentence of at least 3 years. Third offense? The company is seized, all properties confiscated and turned over to a company that does follow the law.
People have had enough of the damage landlords do to our society. Sooner or later, there will be a reckoning
This is a lot of writing to just say you don’t like landlords and back it up with false ideas that would not pan out well for anyone.
Sell to the renter was funny. Why is the renter a renter in the first place? Because he couldn’t buy a house or didn’t want to.
People like you tend to be low achievers in life then blame everyone else for their failures.
You should just move to another country that is more socialist.
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