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Tenant here - Gouges that need plaster are not normal wear and tear. Painting without permission a different color than was there is not normal wear and tear. Wallpaper application is not normal wear and tear. Dirt that can be seen and not cleaned easily via vaccum/mop/normaldusting & polish is not normal wear and tear.
I had a place that had a clean-out procedure that needed to be followed. Steam cleaned carpets,holes filled and ready for paint, no excessive mold/mildew/dirt.
Pretty simple. You could also price the cost to steam clean and tack that to your deposit as "this will be taken out if you do not make an apt with (x) company to do it yourself before you leave"
Zinsser makes a really good primer that I sealed in green marker with. So Im pretty sure it would help with that green wall you have. Its the best primer I have used. Not too $$ either. Sometimes with cheaper stuff you have to watch for a bleedthrough that comes up later. (that drives me insane)
First mistake you made in not having it written into the rental agreement that you will be conducting a property walk through every 90 days. That would include all landscape watering and maintenance, and a detailed inspection of the interior. That way you find out what kind of people you're dealing with before they move out and leave a disaster. Don't allow them nine months to destroy the place before you check on them.
Having a "no painting" clause is a good idea, but if you don't inspect, you don't know. There is no way a home should need repainting in nine months. Two years would be the least before it needs painting, especially with two adults and no children. How do two adults get the walls dirty? My wife and I have lived in our home for five years, and the walls look like the day we moved in..! That's another reason to do periodic inspections.
You must also do a pre-move-in walk through, so both parties agree on the condition going in. Do it with a check list, signed by both parties after the walk through. When the renters leave, you both do a move out walk through with a check list. Anything on the two lists that don't match, they have the option to repair, or they pay for.
You are running a business, and you need a complete paper trail for the protection of both parties. With those two check list, you will kick butt if it ends up in court.
Charge them for anything required to restore it to the condition it was in when they moved in. I just had a renter vacate after only nine months, and it is in move in condition, and they had five boys...! When you hold two months rent as security deposit, it's amazing how clean people can be...!
Thanks Donn2390. I do a walk-thru with a check list before and after. I take pictures before and after. I have a real good paper trail. I have even been accused in the past as killing too many trees because I am so thorough. I seem to edit the rental agreement for every new tenant in each property, and now I guess it's going to be 12 pages. lol. I pick up the rent money every month and step inside the door. My mistake was renting to two 20 year olds with a baby due the next month. I thought I would give them a break and help them start a life. BIG MISTAKE. Won't do it again. lol..
The only time I have had a rental with that bad of walls, etc. was after a couple of years.
I was very fortunate that the parents of the boy showed up today and spent most of the day painting and cleaning. I just came back from checking on it and I am still in shock. I only wish they would have made the sorry kids do it.
I lived in my first house for 15 years with two kids and it didn't even need any painting while we were there. It's amazing what a rag with some soapy water can do...... I only painted when we moved because we were selling.
Thanks for the response.
Tenant here - Gouges that need plaster are not normal wear and tear. Painting without permission a different color than was there is not normal wear and tear. Wallpaper application is not normal wear and tear. Dirt that can be seen and not cleaned easily via vaccum/mop/normaldusting & polish is not normal wear and tear.
I had a place that had a clean-out procedure that needed to be followed. Steam cleaned carpets,holes filled and ready for paint, no excessive mold/mildew/dirt.
Pretty simple. You could also price the cost to steam clean and tack that to your deposit as "this will be taken out if you do not make an apt with (x) company to do it yourself before you leave"
Zinsser makes a really good primer that I sealed in green marker with. So Im pretty sure it would help with that green wall you have. Its the best primer I have used. Not too $$ either. Sometimes with cheaper stuff you have to watch for a bleedthrough that comes up later. (that drives me insane)
Glad to see mom is t.c.o.b. though
WOW I am glad to see there is a tenant out there that understands what normal wear and tear means. Thanks for that post.
This particular unit has vinyl all the way through(installed just before their move-in) so the steam cleaning isn't necessary. I also gave them (as I do all my tenants moving out) a letter when they give the 30 day notice of moving. This letter details with a check list everything that is expected of them. It's very simple and makes it very easy for them to get the deposit back.
Thanks again.
I was very fortunate that the parents of the boy showed up today and spent most of the day painting and cleaning. I just came back from checking on it and I am still in shock. I only wish they would have made the sorry kids do it.
You are fortunate indeed. Congratulations..! You are right that the kids should have shared the pain of painting and cleaning. Perhaps the kids are like they are because mom and dad always clean up after them.
A great tip for removing wallpaper border is one part fabric softener and three parts lukewarm water. I actually put in a smidge more fabric softener. Grab a rag, wipe it over the area and let it sit a few minutes. I use a "squeegy" without the sponge and it comes right off. Works like a charm! Hope that helps.
A dog we got from the pound damaged the carpet in one room in this house that we are renting. We agree that it is not normal wear and tear, but now our landlord believes that we should pay to re-carpet the entire house because "they haven't made that carpet in over 10 years"...
Okay... now at this point, I think she's being ridiculous. One room, yeah, gotta be recarpeted... but 11 year+ old carpeting? Not my problem that it won't match!
Of course, this lovely PM also has stated that we have to pay for the ceiling damage... and the shoddy repair done... this damage and repair was done BEFORE we moved in. I could go on and on!
She asked me to send her a photo of the sprinkler heads damaged before we moved in... I complied. Now, naturally, it was the OTHER sprinkler heads the guy had to replace as well. She emailed me again this afternoon asking me for copies of all the photos I took when I moved in.
I told her no. And I said it in an articulate manner, spelling out why. I also told her that further "discussions" on what we're responsible for are pointless. She obviously intends to keep our entire deposit (which she originally said she'd need just to recarpet that one room). We will repair the damage done by our former pet (including sanding and repainting the doors she scratched), but other than that...
we'll wait for the lawsuit. It'll probably be a lot cheaper.
If your dog messed up a running carpet theme you have to do the whole carpeted area. Personally I would be getting the carpet done myself after getting written permission from her on exactly what to do down to color,type and standard. Carpet usually lasts about 5 years but there is stainmaster stuff thats made to last on war up to 15 years.
Why is she charging for sprinkler heads? Did you run them over or something?
The carpet is in a separate room. When the damage began, a carpet cleaner suggested just replacing the pad. I called the PM, they recommended a company. That company came out, replaced the pad in the affected area, restretched the carpet and said that they had something "similar" if it does need to be replaced. I just don't see the justification to having me pay to recarpet the rest of the house. We did ask to replace it ourselves, several months ago. We were told the owner wanted to replace it with faux wood/vinyl flooring and would not give permission for us to replace the carpet. We offered to have the flooring put in but after several emails, it turned into real hardwood flooring... and I am definitely NOT paying for that!
No, one of the sprinkler "pop ups" were damaged before we moved in. They initially told us it was just a head and that replacements were in the garage. Two problems with that... 1) spare sprinkler heads were not the right type and 2) the thing was actually broken. They were going to send someone out, advised us to unplug the system, but never got around to sending someone. The guy who did come (yesterday) told the owners during their visit last month (while we were there) that the problems with the other heads is because the broken head caused a lack of pressure. Due to the lack of pressure, the other heads couldn't "pop up" properly (something we reported and they knew based on the dead areas of grass before we moved in) and over time (his estimate - at least 2 years) they got buried in the dirt.
They haven't done any maintenance here in years. The diseased aspen in the backyard? Although she hasn't stated a specific reason, she has stated that I need to replace the tree. Her "associate" (not sure what her position is) wrote in an email that our smoking near the tree probably caused the disease. (The tree is near the back porch). I asked why only that tree (and not the other 4) was affected by my smoking, but she chose not to respond to that.
I am frustrated. For instance, we removed the mirrored closet doors from my son's room when we moved in a year ago, to ensure he didn't break them. While coming through, she commented that it was a smart move because if they were broken, they would cost at least $500 to replace. So today, my dh went to reinstall them. Left the mirror standing while he went to get a tool. Yep, you guessed it... shattered by "notme" or possibly "idontknow". So we went to LOWES, and brought all the info from the side of the door. $71 later, the doors are replaced. A far cry from her $500 estimate!
A large part of the problem is that she no longer is a "freestanding" real estate agent, for want of a better term. She had to let her employees go, including the one who handled her PM side for over 7 years. The PM has stated that nothing "Shelly" told us matters if I didn't get a photo or get it in writing. The photos taken of this place (that they use to advertise it) are dated 2003. A lot changes in 5 years. Like the paint colors on the walls for instance... good thing I had that whole thing in writing (we didn't paint, but I did keep an email from her former employee about the color differences and shoddy paint jobs done by their former handyman).
Last edited by sskkc; 06-15-2008 at 09:04 PM..
Reason: add
I think you should state to her that you are willing to make reasonable wear and tear repairs. Do a final walk-thru with the price quotes.
Actually pretty funny: Normal Wear and Tear Apartment Cleaning Landlord Tenants
"[SIZE=1]One common method of calculating the deduction for replacement prorates the total cost of replacement so that the tenant pays only for the remaining useful life of the item that the tenant has damaged or destroyed. For example, suppose a tenant has damaged beyond repair an 8 old carpet that had a life expectancy of ten years, and that a replacement carpet of similar quality would cost $1,000. The landlord could properly charge only $200 for the two years’ worth of life (use) that would have remained if the tenant had not damaged the carpet. "
She does seem to be jerking you around on everything but the carpet...except for the carpet price Im sure. And I say this because I havent seen the area..But I moved into a mixymatch carpet duplex that just made me sick..LOL..It looked so terrible
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My main headache is going to be that Colorado tenant laws are non-specific. It's looking like we'll have to go to court. But, we'll keep our fingers crossed that she will be reasonable when she realizes I am willing and ready to fight her. Our last landlord was able to "get us" when we moved out of state. He gave us a glowing recommendation after our final walk thru, but then tried to say we trashed the house after we left the state. We took awesome pictures as we left which proved it wasn't true, but the cost of suing from out of state would've been more than what we could've gotten back.
This time, I'll only be 1 1/2 miles away. To be honest, as long as she doesn't go for more than what we've already paid her in deposits, pet deposits and pet rent, I'll probably let it go.
This is all payback for a deposit issue in my youth. I'm a strong believer that you "reap what you sow". 13 years ago, a landlord and I had a dispute over the condition of the townhouse I rented with a roommate (and while we were arguing, my youthful temper got a hold of me and I kicked backwards and put a hole in the wall... not my best moment). They ended up making a mistake on the deposit statement, and instead of billing us an additional $150 (as he intended) he refunded us $150 plus the deposit. My roommate and I met at the PMs bank and cashed that sucker right away. They had sent the check to my dad's house in another state (even though I'd given them my local forwarding address) just to be difficult and after we cashed it, they tried to go after my Dad. I had a good chuckle over that.
I am just reaping right now. And I'm NOT happy about it!
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